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001201091304
80. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 24 2008, 11:07 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 24 2008, 11:07 PM EST
The - drama - of this whole series is suggested right in this last post. Will we / won't we have Judgment Day? Once that question is answered (especially in the affirmative), the drama is gone and the series is over. It's the give and take of getting ahead and falling behind that holds the dramatic interest. How and for how long will we be able to hold off JD? Should the series continue after JD, it will be a different show. Integral to this is never seeing Future John. He's a myth, a symbol, not a character. If he ever shows up as an actual character (his faint image in the last episode notwithstanding), the magic is broken and the Terminator series as we know it will end.
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UhUknow
81. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series end?
Feb 24 2008, 11:39 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 24 2008, 11:39 PM EST
"How do you want it to end? Should they stop at T4 or keep going?"
if anyone has read the timelines to the series you would know that john is never born terminators are sent back to terminate him at birth, but instead sarah gives birth to a girl altering all timelines and Jane Connor defeats skynet. (kinda a lame ending IMO). it would be intresting to see if this original ending is thrown out in the end (i hope so as i hate to think i've followed a story about john connor for nothing).
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Aaron_Smith
Aaron_Smith
82. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 25 2008, 1:34 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 1:34 PM EST
"The - drama - of this whole series is suggested right in this last post. Will we / won't we have Judgment Day? Once that question is answered (especially in the affirmative), the drama is gone and the series is over. It's the give and take of getting ahead and falling behind that holds the dramatic interest. How and for how long will we be able to hold off JD? Should the series continue after JD, it will be a different show. Integral to this is never seeing Future John. He's a myth, a symbol, not a character. If he ever shows up as an actual character (his faint image in the last episode notwithstanding), the magic is broken and the Terminator series as we know it will end.
"
This is very true. It's only in the unknown that there is any drama. If Skynet is going to go online one way or another - there's nothing to do but stockpile weapons and gain allies. If it isn't - John grows old and has some interesting stories to tell his grandkids.
Every Terminator story to date relies on that struggle. From the very first movie we've known that if the war begins and John Connor is alive, the war will be won. It's why the third novel is a snore, it tells some interesting stories about secondary characters, but there's no essential drama because with John alive, Skynet is inevitably toast. This is why I'm hopeful for the fourth movie: they're focusing on someone elses story within the context of the machine war. John and the outcome of the war are absolutes: he will win. But what about these other guys?
With that said, the "save John to ensure mankind's victory" and "Connors stop Judgement Day" stories have already been done, and the novels and comics only retread that same territory. In order for this series to be something new it has to go in a new direction, as the second novel almost did but copped out of. It had the Connors realizing that Skynet coming online was inevitable, so instead of destroying it they identify what would make it become sentient and afraid for its existence, and create a programming patch that would prevent that from every happening. They break into where it's currently being developed and upload it, taking away its teeth and allowing mankind to continue safely with its technological development. (Or so they think.)
I think that for series to stand on its own, it needs to have an original ending of that sort. A different battle and a different outcome other than "Skynet: online and homicidal" or "Skynet: in little bits and pieces."
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supurrstarr
83. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series
Feb 25 2008, 3:48 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 3:48 PM EST
"Anyway, since this is between T2 and T3, we know it ends up at T3 - at least the first part. What I think would be really cool is if they used some of the scenes from T3 and sort of passed over those events, kind of making the T3 movie into one of the episodes! Then, continue on from T3 up until the point where they send the first terminator (Ahnold!) back in time. That would "close the loop". Then, they could continue on, essentially from the first Terminator movie, but from the reference of John Connor as an adult and the scenes shown at the beginning of T1. Also, I'd like to see man win the war, but I think they could really do a lot with how they win."
this show does not take place between T2 and T3 . In T3 Judgement Day happened on July, 24, 2004. This show take place in 2007. They changed the past T3 didn't happen.

Now I think it would be cool if human and machines live in harmony, but on the other hand i would like to see the humans win the war and destroy skynet. That's if Sarah, John, Cameron, and now John's uncle can't stop Judgement Day.
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CSM101
CSM101
84. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 25 2008, 5:43 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 5:43 PM EST
As Josh Friedman has put it T3 and anything after T2 should not be considered as part of T:SCC canon. The show and the movies are now on a seperate timeline. It's actually fitting for the series that is based on a paradox of epic proportions. Go ahead and watch them and enjoy them but the stories are not connected. Imagine it as a fork in the road. T1 and T2 continued on a straight line and then there came a defining moment in time where certain actions would make major changes depending on what occured. Well the events of T3 show that Sarah died and caused John to become a directionless loner who ended up meeting up with a girl from his past who would play a major part in his life. Well T;SCC goes down a whole other path where he will not come in contact with Kate and so that events will be totally different. I guess the novels would probably be on there own timeline as well but i've never read any of the EU so i would'nt really know. 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Kyle_Reese
Kyle_Reese
85. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series end?
Feb 25 2008, 6:31 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 6:31 PM EST
"if anyone has read the timelines to the series you would know that john is never born terminators are sent back to terminate him at birth, but instead sarah gives birth to a girl altering all timelines "
Actually this is from one of the later Dark Horse Terminator comic books, since it creates such a major change it forms its own time line; don't expect to see it referenced in the TV or movies.
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Kyle_Reese
Kyle_Reese
86. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 25 2008, 6:41 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 6:41 PM EST
"This is very true. It's only in the unknown that there is any drama. If Skynet is going to go online one way or another - there's nothing to do but stockpile weapons and gain allies. If it isn't - John grows old and has some interesting stories to tell his grandkids.

This is why I'm hopeful for the fourth movie: they're focusing on someone elses story within the context of the machine war. John and the outcome of the war are absolutes: he will win. But what about these other guys?
"
If the writers aren't careful the show could fall victim to the 'hung hero" trap; thats where the hero is on a quest t that drives him throughout the story but he can't be allowed to achieve it or the story ends (EG Voyager's attempt to return the Federation), The trick will be to have stories that create a sense of risk for the characters even though we know John can't die if Skynet is to be defeated. Hard, but not impossible, especially if they bring in characters people could come to care about but whose role is not pre ordained, eg Cameron and Kyle's brother. Even if you know how things will ultimately play out out you can still enjoy a historical drama, like Saving Private Ryan or Band of Brothers, if you care about the characters.
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eelman007
eelman007
87. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 25 2008, 7:16 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 7:16 PM EST
It should end with the start of Judgement Day, John & Kate in the bunker(as in T3) and the start of the war with the machines. then this will set up the fourth movie nicely (im really , really hoping they do a fourth movie). We see John & kate come out of the bunker and grab some pieces of both terminators , then they head out and meet up with a platoon battalion size group of marines (mabey with a couple of A1 Ahbrams)the C.O. knew Kates father and knew what he was working on. It ends there and we all hold our breath for the movie. 0  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    

CrystalMethPunk
88. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Feb 25 2008, 7:18 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 25 2008, 7:18 PM EST
I just don't want the series to end with John sending Kyle back. Give me an actual conclusion, not something that makes the story never end, going basically in a circle. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Chopped_Liver
Chopped_Liver
89. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:07 PM EDT
"I just don't want the series to end with John sending Kyle back. Give me an actual conclusion, not something that makes the story never end, going basically in a circle."
That is the problem with time travel. If you ever do go back in time, you will always go back in time.
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Chopped_Liver
Chopped_Liver
90. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:16 PM EDT
"How do you want it to end? Should they stop at T4 or keep going?"
I would like it to end with Cameron becoming an integral part of Skynet and infusing it with empathy for humans, not hate. But, i think TSCC will end where T3 started, as if there efforts had no effect. Why? Because "Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins" (T4) is set after the destruction of humanity.

Of course, TSCC could be working on a separate reality altogether, ignore everything that the other Terminator shows do, and go on indefinitely postponing Judgement Day.
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Coven
Coven
91. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:22 PM EDT
Not sure if anyone has said this, I haven't read all the post.

A whole new Terminator trilogy is in the works right now, "Terminator Salvation". Christian Bale will be playing adult John Connor, taking place after Judgment day, showing the war between the resistance and the machines. So, there will be T4, T5, and T6 (As long as T4 does well). T4 is labeled, Terminator Salvation: The Future Begins. So by the end of those movies, Skynet will have been defeated, and thus, the Terminator series ends.
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TheCinC
92. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:27 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:27 PM EDT
SkyNet cannot be stopped by John or with John's help, as that will result in Kyle not travelling back in time to father John Connor. All John can do is pick up the pieces after Judgement Day and make sure SkyNet doesn't win in the end.

AI technology is such a big prize, people will always be working on it, they can't kill them all. Someday, an AI will be created. But all they need to do is prevent it from becoming genocidal. Either through making sure it can't access/control military hardware, or by making sure it doesn't become frightened enough to decide its only option is to wipe out mankind. But who could do that? Not someone sent from the future, not with help from the future. Sarah might be able to, but how would she do so without knowledge from the future? Without knowledge about Judgement Day, there is no need to stop it. THERE is the real problem! For them to be able to work towards PREVENTING Judgement Day, they need to know there will BE a Judgement Day... This series AND the movies would become pretty lame if all of a sudden it revolved around going to talk to scientists and impressing upon them to be careful in their AI research or the manner in which it is used, because, you know, it might be kinda dangerous?

Judgement Day is inevitable. All they can do is make sure they are ready to pick up the pieces. At best, they might be able to limit the damage. But SkyNet needs to exist, needs to build the time displacement equipment for Kyle to travel back. That at least. Otherwise, EVERYTHING we've seen so far becomes an alternate timeline.

Could that really be? That John and Sarah are on an impossible quest? In other words, Terminator 3, but then earlier in time? So they end up just preparing for the worst? The better prepared they are, the less the damage will be AFTER Judgement Day?

Is there really an alternate option, possibly involving Cameron and SkyNet, that would NOT turn everything upside down?
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CyborgBoy101
93. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series
Mar 12 2008, 1:32 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:32 PM EDT
No....Star Trek..You idiot!!! 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Coven
Coven
94. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:33 PM EDT
"SkyNet cannot be stopped by John or with John's help, as that will result in Kyle not travelling back in time to father John Connor. All John can do is pick up the pieces after Judgement Day and make sure SkyNet doesn't win in the end.

AI technology is such a big prize, people will always be working on it, they can't kill them all. Someday, an AI will be created. But all they need to do is prevent it from becoming genocidal. Either through making sure it can't access/control military hardware, or by making sure it doesn't become frightened enough to decide its only option is to wipe out mankind. But who could do that? Not someone sent from the future, not with help from the future. Sarah might be able to, but how would she do so without knowledge from the future? Without knowledge about Judgement Day, there is no need to stop it. THERE is the real problem! For them to be able to work towards PREVENTING Judgement Day, they need to know there will BE a Judgement Day... This series AND the movies would become pretty lame if all of a sudden it revolved around going to talk to scientists and impressing upon them to be careful in their AI research or the manner in which it is used, because, you know, it might be kinda dangerous?

Judgement Day is inevitable. All they can do is make sure they are ready to pick up the pieces. At best, they might be able to limit the damage. But SkyNet needs to exist, needs to build the time displacement equipment for Kyle to travel back. That at least. Otherwise, EVERYTHING we've seen so far becomes an alternate timeline.

Could that really be? That John and Sarah are on an impossible quest? In other words, Terminator 3, but then earlier in time? So they end up just preparing for the worst? The better prepared they are, the less the damage will be AFTER Judgement Day?

Is there really an alternate option, possibly involving Cameron and SkyNet, that would NOT turn everything upside down?"
I don't agree with that.

Who's to say that Kyle would always be Johns father? Someone else could father John. I think Kyle actually changed the original timeline when he traveled back, and fathered John. So far, there has been nothing to say that Kyle HAD to be Johns father.

Besides, John is a soldier. He would gladly sacrifice himself, to save the people, it's in Johns nature. Also, the entire reason Skynet sends Terminators through time is because they are losing the war in the future, Kyle says this in the first movie. Skynet was losing, and was eventually going to be destroyed. That does not mean John wouldn't exist though.
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Chopped_Liver
Chopped_Liver
95. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 1:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 1:43 PM EDT
"SkyNet cannot be stopped by John or with John's help, as that will result in Kyle not travelling back in time to father John Connor. All John can do is pick up the pieces after Judgement Day and make sure SkyNet doesn't win in the end.

AI technology is such a big prize, people will always be working on it, they can't kill them all. Someday, an AI will be created. But all they need to do is prevent it from becoming genocidal. Either through making sure it can't access/control military hardware, or by making sure it doesn't become frightened enough to decide its only option is to wipe out mankind. But who could do that? Not someone sent from the future, not with help from the future. Sarah might be able to, but how would she do so without knowledge from the future? Without knowledge about Judgement Day, there is no need to stop it. THERE is the real problem! For them to be able to work towards PREVENTING Judgement Day, they need to know there will BE a Judgement Day... This series AND the movies would become pretty lame if all of a sudden it revolved around going to talk to scientists and impressing upon them to be careful in their AI research or the manner in which it is used, because, you know, it might be kinda dangerous?

Judgement Day is inevitable. All they can do is make sure they are ready to pick up the pieces. At best, they might be able to limit the damage. But SkyNet needs to exist, needs to build the time displacement equipment for Kyle to travel back. That at least. Otherwise, EVERYTHING we've seen so far becomes an alternate timeline.

Could that really be? That John and Sarah are on an impossible quest? In other words, Terminator 3, but then earlier in time? So they end up just preparing for the worst? The better prepared they are, the less the damage will be AFTER Judgement Day?

Is there really an alternate option, possibly involving Cameron and SkyNet, that would NOT turn everything upside down?"
In the "logic" of time travel, you make quite good sense. I've always said, "If you need to go back in time to change something, then you have already failed."
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TheCinC
96. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 12 2008, 2:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 12 2008, 2:05 PM EDT
"In the "logic" of time travel, you make quite good sense. I've always said, "If you need to go back in time to change something, then you have already failed.""
Thank you! I'm very interested in time travel, working on one story involving time travel. Getting the logic to work is a chore...

Terminator 1 worked, because John existed as a result of Kyle traveling back in time. It was a closed loop.

It is kind of odd that in TSCC they -remember- the earlier timelines. That should not be possible. But now that it is considered possible, that could be a way out. They -remember- Judgement Day and therefore work to stop it. But what will happen to John Connor then?
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Kyle_Reese
Kyle_Reese
97. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 13 2008, 12:40 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2008, 12:40 PM EDT
"It is kind of odd that in TSCC they -remember- the earlier timelines. That should not be possible. But now that it is considered possible, that could be a way out. They -remember- Judgement Day and therefore work to stop it. But what will happen to John Connor then?"
Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but I don't think there's a problem on that score. The Terminator time line changes post T2, the attack on Cyberdyne disrupting the development of Skynet enough to push Judgement Day back to 2011 and have the war still being fought in 2032; Sarah and John's memorys wouldn't be effected since they'd been given the information about the future at a point BEFORE the change occured. Cameron did tell them that date for Judgement day had changed but since John survived he could simply have told her that things originally unfolded differently, so no paradox there I think.
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TheCinC
98. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 13 2008, 1:12 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 13 2008, 1:12 PM EDT
"Not sure if I'm understanding you correctly but I don't think there's a problem on that score. The Terminator time line changes post T2, the attack on Cyberdyne disrupting the development of Skynet enough to push Judgement Day back to 2011 and have the war still being fought in 2032; Sarah and John's memorys wouldn't be effected since they'd been given the information about the future at a point BEFORE the change occured. Cameron did tell them that date for Judgement day had changed but since John survived he could simply have told her that things originally unfolded differently, so no paradox there I think."
Well, I'm pretty sure that that is exactly the paradox! Once you change time, in my opinion, history is rewritten! So, for the people involved in it, things simply have always been that way. How can you remember a timeline that no longer exists? From your point of view, it would never have existed in the first place!

In Terminator 1, things seemed to work that way. It created some sort of closed loop, whereby Kyle Reese ended up being John's father. Things worked out exactly the way they always had. As far as we knew, there had -always- been a Terminator to go after Sarah Connor, it had always lost, and John had always grown up to be taught by his mother to fight against the machines. A self-fulfilling prophecy, in a way.

In Terminator 2, Terminator 3 and TSCC, this logic goes right out of the window: they change time repeatedly and -they remember- doing this, resulting in them waiting in vain for the original date of Judgement Day. But, if they changed time, then Kyle grew up differently! Kyle would have given a different date for Judgement Day! Judgement Day would be inevatable, unless and until they find a way to prevent it completely, but that would mean they wouldn't know they'd need to prevent it, because Kyle wouldn't warn them!

The Terminator Universe doesn't follow that kind of logic (anymore). Although this corresponds with Kyle's statements "The future is not set" and "There is no fate but what we make" it seems a bit flawed to me. But apparantly, that is just the way things work in the Terminator Universe. It -does- mean that SkyNet might win though. Because if this same logic affects SkyNet, then it too might remember previous timelines. So, it could end up taking out John, thereby removing him from the timeline, but still remembering that it should send out that Terminator, because he would otherwise be a threat! Without that ability, any mission to kill him is doomed from the start!
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FrenchFanofTSCC
FrenchFanofTSCC
99. RE: This is a question to the fans.How should the terminator series en
Mar 19 2008, 10:10 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 19 2008, 10:10 AM EDT
i really like your comment,and i hope we see that in season two to believe it,thay have take away the Coltan and the serie is gonna end on the peace with machines and humans,because humans have find an easy way to stop them if they go wrong,John Connor as become Presient of the USA !(before the real judgment day) Do you find this valuable?    
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