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Xenomorphine
60. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 1:56 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 1:56 PM EST
I think the Mister Myagi analogy is a good one. Cameron fits that role well. She's a protector and mentor, rather than a character who is meant to have the story focus on, to the potential exclusion of all else.

I'm curious as to why people think she's faster, however. :) Remember the third film and the blast doors? The T-800/T-850 (depending on your own preference) ran at a very impressive speed over there.
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sidspappy
sidspappy
61. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 2:27 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 2:27 PM EST
"I think the Mister Myagi analogy is a good one. Cameron fits that role well. She's a protector and mentor, rather than a character who is meant to have the story focus on, to the potential exclusion of all else.

I'm curious as to why people think she's faster, however. :) Remember the third film and the blast doors? The T-800/T-850 (depending on your own preference) ran at a very impressive speed over there."
Okay, I can get behind the Miyagi analogy. Using Cameron as a foil or backdrop for the human character development is admirable. I personally hope for a some kind of growth for Cameron, though. I'd get bored if she's the same at the end of a season as the beginning.

Every other Terminator seems to be faster than Cameron. Remember the T-1000? He chased down several vehicles in the movie! Arnie in T2 did the "quick swipe" and lifted the shotgun from the bar owner.
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Shrapnel20
62. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 8:26 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 8:26 PM EST
So far Cameron is a pretty lame Terminator compared to all others imo. Of course we don't know her true purpose. She may have not been intended for combat. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
eightthegreat
eightthegreat
63. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 8:57 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 8:57 PM EST
" Of course we don't know her true purpose. She may have not been intended for combat. "
Good point. she said she was different, hopefully SOON we will get some hints about just what she meant.
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Junecleage
Junecleage
64. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 9:33 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 9:33 PM EST
Someone earlier mentioned Star Trek...To me, Cameron reminds me of Data on Next Generation....He was waaaaaaayyyyy more of a warm-n-fuzzy character than she is, of course. But she shares some of his puzzlement about how human stuff works. And not just the Vid 1 and Vid 2 buttons on the TV.

I think she's interesting to us because she's imperfect. She doesn't know everything; she doesn't "get" everything. She never will. But she tries, and that's the difference between her and the other terminators on this show. Their missions don't involve protecting humans. Hers does. To be the kind of terminator who could do that she has to have a certain amount of flexibility about her...a curiosity that enables her to learn and adapt. She's got to be able to put up with John and Sarah's bitching at each other and her (those wacky, emotional and unpredictable humans). She's cute and weird and flawed and we care about her.

She's easily the most interesting character on the show so far (in my opinion, anyway).
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Xenomorphine
65. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 7 2008, 10:06 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 7 2008, 10:06 PM EST
Which makes her no different from the T-800 in the second film, does it?

And her opposition is meant to be slightly more advanced than those. Laaa... :)
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rsecret
66. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 12:28 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 12:28 AM EST
Who knows...mabye Cameron was sent back by Skynet to befreind John? Maybe the terminator protecting the Coltran was sent back by John to prevent its use?

For a machine theres something about Cameron that just dosen't click...ha..ha.
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Merkrius
Merkrius
67. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:14 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:14 AM EST
Whats the average life span of an infiltration unit. Maybe the terminators themselves don't know how far they can go in acquiring human traits. How do we know they can't develop emotions? Did Skynet strike first because of fear? 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Xenomorphine
68. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 3:20 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 3:20 AM EST
"Whats the average life span of an infiltration unit."
Given in the second film. :)
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allergygal
allergygal
69. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 11:29 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 11:29 AM EST
"I'm starting to believe the "deep" moment theory here. I rewatched it last night, and Cameron had a definite contemplative, fascinated look on her face while she stared at the coltan. This coincided with Sarah's voiceover about control over what we create (golem story). This seemed to me that the writers are suggesting that Skynet and/or John are "losing control" over a Terminator (like Cameron), who is beginning to develop higher, complex thoughts like "is this what I am? (coltan/machinery) Am I nothing more?" And if she is more, she may be wondering "Why? What makes me different than just a collection of metal and flesh?""
Yes, I'm also in the "deep moment" camp. Cameron seemed to have a sense of curiosity about that bar of coltan, perhaps wondering about her own origins. It was a "human" kind of moment for her and perhaps a major step towards self-awareness. And the fact that she kept it secret implies it's not for repairs (she wouldn't have needed to keep that secret). This was something personal.

Cameron's becoming a more interesting character than I would have expected. Can't wait to see where it goes.
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dallas_112678
70. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 11:41 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 11:41 AM EST
She took it because she was curious about her creation as said by Fox lol.

http://www.fox.com/terminator/recaps/index.htm

In heavy metals recap, one of the last sentences says "Cameron looks over a piece of Colton she took, curious about her creation."

So according to fox, she is curious about her creation, which if true would make her seem more human from being so curious.
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SpaceTrucker
SpaceTrucker
71. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 1:16 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 1:16 PM EST
WOW, I can't believe noone's paying attention to the series, come one people, she kept it because if she doesn't then she doesn't get "born"!

If you remember, neither John nor Sarah sends her back, so someone else must've built her, (John's wife maybe?). Also, if you notice when they jumped ahead in the time-line, there was this scene where Cameron comes into the room, (after 3 days,) and tells Sarah and John that there is a group of people there with all they need already, like she already knew it but, at the same token didn't, because the "time lag" as John called it. Once they jumped the time line, (albeit they are still in it somewhere,) they changed things, well these things still have already had to have happened in Cameron's eyes, that's why there was "all of a sudden" some people "back from the future" waiting for them with their supplies. Therefore, if your keeping along that train of thought, if she didn't keep that one piece of Coltran, that she's made of, then she couldn't have been "born."

Gotta keep in mind that all this is taking place in Cameron's past still, so anything they do, can and does effect her. It's all still futuristic to Sarah and John, so they can't already know any of it. What all of them do becomes a matter of historical record to Cameron. Her look to me was one of concern that now she has more than John to contend with protecting, in that she also must now protect herself as well, so as to assure she can be "born".
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Vargess
Vargess
72. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 1:41 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 1:41 PM EST
"WOW, I can't believe noone's paying attention to the series, come one people, she kept it because if she doesn't then she doesn't get "born"!

If you remember, neither John nor Sarah sends her back, so someone else must've built her, (John's wife maybe?). Also, if you notice when they jumped ahead in the time-line, there was this scene where Cameron comes into the room, (after 3 days,) and tells Sarah and John that there is a group of people there with all they need already, like she already knew it but, at the same token didn't, because the "time lag" as John called it. Once they jumped the time line, (albeit they are still in it somewhere,) they changed things, well these things still have already had to have happened in Cameron's eyes, that's why there was "all of a sudden" some people "back from the future" waiting for them with their supplies. Therefore, if your keeping along that train of thought, if she didn't keep that one piece of Coltran, that she's made of, then she couldn't have been "born."

Gotta keep in mind that all this is taking place in Cameron's past still, so anything they do, can and does effect her. It's all still futuristic to Sarah and John, so they can't already know any of it. What all of them do becomes a matter of historical record to Cameron. Her look to me was one of concern that now she has more than John to contend with protecting, in that she also must now protect herself as well, so as to assure she can be "born".
"
Sorry, but I have to disagree with this train of thought. Cameron already exists. She can't be "born", she's already there. As events in the current timeline change, the knowledge of these events are carried with the characters (John, Sarah, Cameron) so they know what happened and would be able to send "aid" back in time close to a point where they will need it. Hence the 4 guys sent back with ID's, money, and so forth.

What is not known, is what will happen now in the current timeline because they have changed it. Skynet also responds by sending back Terminators in response to the changes that take place in the past, to try and compensate for those changes.

Now, the point of Cameron keeping a bar of Coltan, (not coltran, people :) ) is largely unknown to us right now. She knows of events that have taken place and may still take place. She could be keeping for any number of reasons, all too many to speculate at this time. True, Fox says she is curious of her creation. Perhaps it will be used to experiment? Maybe it will be to build another Terminator for some purpose? It could be repairs, a weapon, a tool, a souvenier(sp?).. Who knows.
She also stated she was built at a factory at the bunker 37, which mind you, is still standing and has a functional Terminator inside. Granted he can't easily get out, if at all. The bunker is still there, and if the factory is outside the blast center, it will obviously be built after the bombs go off.
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SpaceTrucker
SpaceTrucker
73. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 1:49 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 1:49 PM EST
"She took it because she was curious about her creation as said by Fox lol.

http://www.fox.com/terminator/recaps/index.htm

In heavy metals recap, one of the last sentences says "Cameron looks over a piece of Colton she took, curious about her creation."

So according to fox, she is curious about her creation, which if true would make her seem more human from being so curious."
Yeah curious about it, because if she doesn't keep and protect it, she may not exist. They only "dumped" one shipment of that Coltran, and this taking place after the second movie episode, then there must have been more somewhere else still being protected, since Arnold's model and all the other "Terminators" were and still are about, Cromartie being one of them. Destroying that one shipment obviously didn't stop what's going to take place, only assured that, that one facility didn't have it's supplies to build it's "Terminators".

Hence the reason she said she was "different", in that she wasn't built like the rest, she was built by the humans, not Skynet. After they raid and destroy most of the facilities in the future, they obviously found and took the "G.I. Martie" apart to build their own, once the bar of Coltran that one of them, (John, Sarah, or Cameron,) will eventually hide, (or have on them,) is finally found, (or not as the case may be.) It may be too late to save John of the future from dying but, someone must have finished building her and sent her back, as their last hope. Being they only had one bar, and possibly enough resources for only one "robot", they obviously made sure that she could withstand more than the other "Terminators" could "throw at her." Which would explain why she's shorter, since by making her frame smaller, they save on how much they have to thin the Coltran out, which explains her frame strength, and abilities to withstand more than the "Skynet models". It also explains some why her personality is different than the rest too, since she was built by humans and not Skynet they are more likely to make sure that she can't be "hacked" by it as much as possible.
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SpaceTrucker
SpaceTrucker
74. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:11 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:11 PM EST
"Sorry, but I have to disagree with this train of thought. Cameron already exists. She can't be "born", she's already there. As events in the current timeline change, the knowledge of these events are carried with the characters (John, Sarah, Cameron) so they know what happened and would be able to send "aid" back in time close to a point where they will need it. Hence the 4 guys sent back with ID's, money, and so forth.

What is not known, is what will happen now in the current timeline because they have changed it. Skynet also responds by sending back Terminators in response to the changes that take place in the past, to try and compensate for those changes.

Now, the point of Cameron keeping a bar of Coltan, (not coltran, people :) ) is largely unknown to us right now. She knows of events that have taken place and may still take place. She could be keeping for any number of reasons, all too many to speculate at this time. True, Fox says she is curious of her creation. Perhaps it will be used to experiment? Maybe it will be to build another Terminator for some purpose? It could be repairs, a weapon, a tool, a souvenier(sp?).. Who knows.
She also stated she was built at a factory at the bunker 37, which mind you, is still standing and has a functional Terminator inside. Granted he can't easily get out, if at all. The bunker is still there, and if the factory is outside the blast center, it will obviously be built after the bombs go off."
Of course the John of the future would already know and would pass this information on to whomever survives him, (his wife obviously,) and Cameron would be programmed with this knowledge, but once they change the timeline, (which they did when they jumped,) she wouldn't know what was going to happen until it did on their end. What she has going for her is that being from the future, anything that takes place now will be inserted in her memory banks as it had already happened. Same with if they had destroyed the place that she was built at, then she couldn't have been built there and may not have been sent back to begin with. The only way she could have known that they had sent the "aid" back is if it had already happened before she was sent back but, (this part didn't take place until after she was sent back so she couldn't have known prior,) otherwise why did she wait 3 days to tell them it was there? Because of the jump in the timeline there was obviously a period there where she was "unattached" from the future events due to the "time lag" as John puts it. She only "exists" because she was "born" or "created" if you will, at that factory in the future and sent back to help them. She didn't just appear out of thin air as you would have us believe by your train of thought. Everything they do changes the time line somehow, since none of this originally happened to begin with. Sure Skynet will most likely try to do something else to "compensate" for these changes, assuming it's still around and is feasible, since I'm going to already assume that Cromartie is what actually does kill John in the future, after it goes through another "skin suit" and becomes "Arnold". Just because "G.I. Martie" is still alive, doesn't mean that they aren't prepared to destroy him in the future when they open it up again to build Cameron.
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LadyTerm
LadyTerm
75. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:21 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:21 PM EST
"Hence the reason she said she was "different", in that she wasn't built like the rest, she was built by the humans, " THIS I LIKE> Makes me wonder if Sarah does live to see Judgement day, then on to be by John's side...she creates with help Cameron, to go back and do what she is doing now...guiding them through and/or around the future that is Judgement day. ALso,"Cromartie is what actually does kill John " is this gonna happen? Do you find this valuable?    
SpaceTrucker
SpaceTrucker
76. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:29 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:29 PM EST
Gotta keep in mind here folks, the John and Sarah of this time line are from the past, there's no way they can already know anything, Cameron is from the future, but there must be some kind of "time lag" before she knows what will happen in it. To Cameron, she's living what has already transpired but, if they change something it's going to take time before she "knows it". Do you find this valuable?    
SpaceTrucker
SpaceTrucker
77. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:36 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:36 PM EST
""Hence the reason she said she was "different", in that she wasn't built like the rest, she was built by the humans, " THIS I LIKE> Makes me wonder if Sarah does live to see Judgement day, then on to be by John's side...she creates with help Cameron, to go back and do what she is doing now...guiding them through and/or around the future that is Judgement day. ALso,"Cromartie is what actually does kill John " is this gonna happen?"
Sarah dies, and besides Sarah doesn't know enough about electronics/metallurgy to help build Cameron, it's more than likely going to be his "wife" who does it, since if you recall, Cameron tells Sarah that she didn't send her back already. I also gathered by the unanswered question that John also didn't send her back, which only leaves one possibility, his wife, who also sent "Arnold" back in T:3, after he kills John. We don't know about if Cromartie is what actually kills John or not at this point, it's not gone that far, I'm only speculating that right now. He does seem to have the same frame structure as "Arnold" does, so it's possible.
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Xenomorphine
78. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:38 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:38 PM EST
"Gotta keep in mind here folks, the John and Sarah of this time line are from the past, there's no way they can already know anything, Cameron is from the future, but there must be some kind of "time lag" before she knows what will happen in it. To Cameron, she's living what has already transpired but, if they change something it's going to take time before she "knows it"."
It should be instantaneous. :)
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Vargess
Vargess
79. RE: Theories on Cameron and the bar of coltran
Feb 8 2008, 2:43 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 8 2008, 2:43 PM EST
"She didn't just appear out of thin air as you would have us believe by your train of thought."
I didn't state she would "appear out of thin air". I should have clarified more. I was refering to the current timeline they are in. She already exists. Build herself in the future? That would imply either 1, she/they build another one of her and then there would be 2 of her, or 2 she dies/loses most of her body, so they replace/repair her with that bar.
Agreeable on the time lag theory. However to assume John is killed in the future is a moot point at current. regardless of what happens in the "old" future, John is alive now in the "new" timeline and that can and/or will change events in the future, no matter what might happen to him along the "old" timeline. Each time will be different. ..I think that makes sense.
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