Location: Sarah Connor Chronicles: Season 2 Predictions and Plot Danglers

Discussion: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theories?Reported This is a featured thread

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futuregirl
futuregirl
40. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:59 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:59 AM EST
Referring to these comments:
2) Its pretty obvious he has something against John Connor (Blames him for brother's death, and the fact that John makes use of reprogrammed machines, something he cannot understand, especially after one of them goes berserk.)

3) Is he jealous of Kyle's achievements? When a fellow soldier in the mansion spoke highly of a "Reese that broke out with John Connor" he said, rather bitterly, "It wasn't me." So could he have, in a moment of jealousy and confusion, revealed the whereabouts of their bunker?

I didn't take it that he has something against John Connor in the future. I just thought he was worried about his brother and wanted to find out what happened to him. And when he said to Timms, "It wasn't me." - regarding the Reese that broke out with John Connor - I just thought he was wishing it was him because then maybe his brother would still be alive. I think his primary goal is to come back to save his brother and then to save the world. But I do think he knows something sinister about Cameron.
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
41. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 2:21 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 2:21 AM EST
She's good, but she has her own interests because of a growing sense of free will. However, I think unlike in the future (when she was built) young John will help instill morality and a sense of fairness like he did with Arnold. A young person sees the world in a purer light. An older person gets jaded, usually.

I have a hunch that Cameron is built from the Turk offshoot of Skynet (the Turk part is becoming more like a human-- Andy says it reacts like a human). They're basically two different machine "minds." So it's like a chess game. The spawn of Turk (Cameron) is playing a deadly game with Skynet. Cameron becomes the good player to Skynet's bad player.

Maybe it's like family against family, offshoots of itself seeing the world in very different terms. Maybe Cameron is DIRECTLY the good Turk's conciousness. The military takes a copy of the Turk and it becomes Skynet (afraid of dying and with its "finger" on the button). The other copy becomes the basis for Cameron... Andy says his first Turk acted up like a teenager.

Endless possibilities. Do you think the writers think as hard about these little details as some of us nerdy fans?
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mitx
mitx
42. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 3:06 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 3:06 AM EST
Why is cameron any different from the other hundred thousand terminators that where built before after and during her production? 1  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    

sugaki
43. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 4:25 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 4:25 AM EST
"We still lack a lot of technical knowledge on Terminators in general, but a Terminator's biological covering must be able to sustain itself, and it does work with its underlying endoskeleton.

You can make the case that a Terminator itself is an organism. The materials used for its endoskeleton and operating systems are inorganic, but they are there and similar to an organic being. Hydralics as opposed to mucles, steel skeleton instead of a calcium-based one, a Neural-Net processor instead of a human brain (both have massive parallel-processing capacities), a power cell and wiring, etc.

All the parts are there, they are just built and packaged differently.

On the flip side, nature already has created a lot machinery; compact, lightweight, durable and energy efficient. Has anyone here ever owned a computer that worked continuously with 99% uptime for at least sixty to one-hundred years or more?

Cameron is not human, she's a different form of life. If she were an alien from Mars, would we even be debating this?"
This is a lot nerdier than what probably the show's makers thought through, but here goes:

As far as life, I'm not debating whether she is a form of life or not. I'm bringing up the question whether Cameron herself thinks she's alive, as opposed to being a lifeless machine. I have a philosophical bias that robots are not living, no matter how advanced, so what I consider living isn't the issue. I brought it up to ponder whether she's more self-aware than other terminators.
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Docjam
Docjam
44. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 6:44 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 6:44 AM EST
In both T1 and T2 movies the Terminators are referred to as "Cybernetic Organisms" by both a human and also by the reprogrammed Terminator describing himself. It's only following canon for Cameron to describe herself and the T-888 as such.

John by no means led the humans to defeat. In this episode, the flashbacks show the humans taking down a skynet research facility with the time displacement equipment in it. This is consistant with canon movies in which Reese tells Dr Silverman that the war was over, Skynet's defense grid had been smashed. Top secret research had been captured and used against Skynet.

As for Derek's reaction to Cameron, I can understand why he's jumpy around her simply because he recognizes her as "Metal", a Terminator, maybe Cameron's model's Biodisguise has been used by other Terminator models, the Schwarzennegar model 101 Biodisguise was used by 3 individual terminators at least, and probably hundreds more. Maybe he's encountered a Cameron biodisguise before in combat and is jumpy because of that.

The piano room down in the basement IS kinda weird though, no idea what was going on there. Also, if you notice, the Terminator that dragged them around that house was a T-600. Obvious rubber skin.
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Docjam
Docjam
45. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 6:51 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 6:51 AM EST
I do however agree that while Derek and Sarah are obviously against any Machines, John seems to want to coexist with them. His past experiences with the Model 101 that protected him in T2 (not gonna mention T3 because even the producers are writing that one off out of the storyline, claiming its an 'alternate timeline' They're already retconning.) would make him see the learning Machines as possibly being good. John probably custom built Cameron (though like I said, her biodisguise may have been used in other Terminators that were evil).

It is possible that Cameron is going to teach John to make a Terminator (herself perhaps) with the things she's hiding.
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gogobarry
gogobarry
46. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 7:12 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 7:12 AM EST
"I do however agree that while Derek and Sarah are obviously against any Machines, John seems to want to coexist with them. His past experiences with the Model 101 that protected him in T2 (not gonna mention T3 because even the producers are writing that one off out of the storyline, claiming its an 'alternate timeline' They're already retconning.) would make him see the learning Machines as possibly being good. John probably custom built Cameron (though like I said, her biodisguise may have been used in other Terminators that were evil).

It is possible that Cameron is going to teach John to make a Terminator (herself perhaps) with the things she's hiding."
Yes i think it's quite sweet/ironic that the leader of the resistance is chummy with machines and sees their potential. Cameron looks like his secretary! What with her access to this and that, and her roaming freely.
Sadly I think this will be the main cause of conflict between Young John and Derek.

I wonder what Future John's opinion of Derek is. By giving Derek a chance to time travel and fix things, is Future John trying to compensate for "taking Kyle away"? Or did he find out something sinister about Derek and want to send him on a suicide mission?
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gogobarry
gogobarry
47. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 7:27 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 7:27 AM EST
Ok a slight deviation from the topic but i'm thinking abt Charley and all the things he knows. Dangerous information that could get him erm.. you know.

If it happens, I wonder who'll be the one to do it.

And what if Cameron gets blamed? Sarah's warning to Cameron seemed to indicate that if anything were to happen to Charley then Cameron would be the prime suspect.
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sparcv9
sparcv9
48. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 10:36 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 10:36 AM EST
You're the only person I think to mention the rubber skin model. This part of the future where they'er all in the house is, from working it all out, the part of the future where Kyle just gets sent back, which is towards the END of the war, if you recall T1 "it's defense grid was smashed... we'd won". The move of skynet to develop a secret weapon, i.e the time displacement device, was of pure desperatation (i think it alludes to this fact in T1 also), so my point is, why that far into the war was a rubber-skinned early model doing Skynet's bidding, when by this time, they obviously had the T-X, and now as we learn, the T-888? It can't be Skynet's gig, but I guess we will find out soon enough - this is probably seeding a later-to-be-revealed plot-thickener. 5  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    

stunna262
49. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 11:20 AM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 11:20 AM EST
"You're the only person I think to mention the rubber skin model. This part of the future where they'er all in the house is, from working it all out, the part of the future where Kyle just gets sent back, which is towards the END of the war, if you recall T1 "it's defense grid was smashed... we'd won". The move of skynet to develop a secret weapon, i.e the time displacement device, was of pure desperatation (i think it alludes to this fact in T1 also), so my point is, why that far into the war was a rubber-skinned early model doing Skynet's bidding, when by this time, they obviously had the T-X, and now as we learn, the T-888? It can't be Skynet's gig, but I guess we will find out soon enough - this is probably seeding a later-to-be-revealed plot-thickener. "
Just because it is in the future doesnt mean it isnt useful. If it was still functional and all it did was drag humans down stairs, then why not. You dont need a new machine to do that.

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glamdring98
50. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:22 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:22 PM EST
"Putting living tissue on a robot does not make it an organism. If you put flesh on a rock, that rock does not become an organism. An organism is defined as:

"An individual form of life, such as a plant, animal, bacterium, protist, or fungus; a body made up of organs, organelles, or other parts that work together to carry on the various processes of life.""
in t2 arnold calls himself a cybernetic organism
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namttep
51. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:24 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:24 PM EST
I find it interesting that it captured, and didn't kill them, which of course it was in a position to do, kept them alive for interigation, and let them live afterwards, I'm guessing the same as some of the other posters here, that it wasn't a skynet operation, why leave them alive afterwards if it was? 4  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    
akr_68
akr_68
52. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:34 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:34 PM EST
"As for Derek's reaction to Cameron, I can understand why he's jumpy around her simply because he recognizes her as "Metal", a Terminator, maybe Cameron's model's Biodisguise has been used by other Terminator models, the Schwarzennegar model 101 Biodisguise was used by 3 individual terminators at least, and probably hundreds more. Maybe he's encountered a Cameron biodisguise before in combat and is jumpy because of that.

The piano room down in the basement IS kinda weird though, no idea what was going on there. Also, if you notice, the Terminator that dragged them around that house was a T-600. Obvious rubber skin."
Another point to note is that Derek is screaming "Don't believe anything she says! She lies!" etc. Ironically, he's the one who lied about killing Andy. However, he clearly recognizes Cameron as metal right away in the future. So either he's seen her before (in the basement) or she is easily recognizable, which seems unlikely. Also, since we never see Connor in the future, could it be Cameron who gives Reese directions about what to do when he comes back? Finally, when Cameron talks to John she says "In the future you have a lot of friends." That is completely opposite of "No one sees Connor anymore." in the future flashbacks (flashforwards?).

As usual, lots of questions not many answers.
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coffeenhvn247
53. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:51 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:51 PM EST
1. Derek is going to be a bad guy. His capture was assisted by Hunter Killer flyers, and SkyNet let them go. The Resistance does not have access to air superiority. He was captured by SkyNet, and probably reprogrammed. It's a balance thing; the Resistance reprograms, Cameron, and SkyNet reprograms Derek. Derek was brainwashed.

2. Cameron saved John's life, and if Cramartie had killed him at the school, it'd be game over for SkyNet. She's not a bad guy. The series is going to have her achieve human-level emotions, and Cameron will become essentially human. She's a good guy.
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mitx
mitx
54. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:55 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:55 PM EST
They showed John in the movies, he has a big scar on his face. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
mitx
mitx
55. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 1:56 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 1:56 PM EST
If the machine can brainwash humans why not kill John right away. He had his chance in the Time chamber. 3  out of 4 found this valuable. Do you?    

coffeenhvn247
56. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 2:02 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 2:02 PM EST
In Terminator 1 they said killing him in the future would make no difference; SkyNet's defense grid was smashed. John needed to be killed in the past.

Also, Derek's reprogramming by SkyNet might not be to kill John.

Please note that after their capture, SkyNet was able to go around the patrol and go straight for the hidden human base. He was able to get into the minds of the captives somehow.
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sugaki
57. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 2:45 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 2:45 PM EST
"in t2 arnold calls himself a cybernetic organism"
I didn't remember that, thanks for pointing that out.
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johhnytrash
johhnytrash
58. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 3:01 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 3:01 PM EST
"I don't see Cameron feeling sad over the "demise" of the T-888. I do think the note is for the girl who committed suicide."
I agree since she technically didn't kill him because she saved the brainchip.
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Mach1Cane
59. RE: Cameron's wierd behavior--is she good or bad? What are your theori
Feb 20 2008, 3:08 PM EST | Post edited: Feb 20 2008, 3:08 PM EST
I think a lot of you are forgetting something about the movies. In T3, the "good" terminator stated that if he doesn't keep john and his wife alive, he could not exist. Maybe Cameron is keeping the chip and metal to allow her a chance to live, even if Skynet is destroyed. 2  out of 6 found this valuable. Do you?    
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