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Discussion: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?Reported This is a featured thread

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DrMabuse
20. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 1:37 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 1:37 PM EDT
"metal bitch..... one sexy metal bitch XD"
Indeed...*gets goosebumbs*
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
21. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 2:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 2:04 PM EDT
LOL! But, of course!!! 1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
sidspappy
sidspappy
22. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 2:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 2:07 PM EDT
"Indeed...*gets goosebumbs*"
I'm starting to wonder if Krazykaleb is right about all of us thinking with our Johnsons (see Cameron/John making love thread)! ;-)

Seriously though, I think Derek's look while watching Cameron dance was one of disbelief and faint horror that the machines he hates with a passion is somewhat gaining...humanity. Dance is a wholly unnecessary and inefficient use of time for a robot, and Derek knows it. By Cameron exploring dance, Derek realizes that she has the capacity to grow beyond her programming.

His look - to me, anyway - was equal parts fear and wonderment.
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Shrapnel20
23. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 6:31 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 6:31 PM EDT
This is an interesting relationship but quite normal I think. IMO it shoots holes in the "John creates Cameron" theory. If this was true, Derek wouldn't think she was a hostile Terminator. He might still hate her, but he wouldn't have shouted a warning and tried to shoot her. I think we can actually use this relationship to show that Cameron isn't so mysterious, we just make her that way. It's easy to guess how he knows her. She's not one of a kind, she's mass produced just like Arnold in the movies. I don't believe she's becoming human either. She's just following a part of her programming. She is an infiltrator and she has the ability to learn how to act more human. An act, nothing more. I don't see any evidence that the Derek/Cameron relationship is anything more then the normal kind you'd see between a Terminator and freedom fighter in the future, but the great thing about this series is that it gives subtle hints that there is more to it and stokes our imagination. 1  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
Michelle67D
Michelle67D
24. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 7:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 7:01 PM EDT
"This is an interesting relationship but quite normal I think. IMO it shoots holes in the "John creates Cameron" theory. If this was true, Derek wouldn't think she was a hostile Terminator. He might still hate her, but he wouldn't have shouted a warning and tried to shoot her. I think we can actually use this relationship to show that Cameron isn't so mysterious, we just make her that way. It's easy to guess how he knows her. She's not one of a kind, she's mass produced just like Arnold in the movies. I don't believe she's becoming human either. She's just following a part of her programming. She is an infiltrator and she has the ability to learn how to act more human. An act, nothing more. I don't see any evidence that the Derek/Cameron relationship is anything more then the normal kind you'd see between a Terminator and freedom fighter in the future, but the great thing about this series is that it gives subtle hints that there is more to it and stokes our imagination."
If John did create Cameron we have no evidence that he told Derek. It's obvious that John doesn't share everything about what is going on -- he doesn't explain himself -- he simply gives orders that he expects to be obeyed.

As for her just imitating a person who was dancing I think that the whole point of the scene with the dancing was to show that she had moved beyond moving mechanically and was actually expressing herself from the soul.If she was just imitating she would have still been moving mechanically.

It wasn't that she danced that floored Derek -- it was how she danced. Machines aren't supposed to express themselves that way. It was in total opposition to what Sarah was saying in the voice over -- that the machines cannot create art - that was exactly what Cameron was doing.

I think you're right sidspappy -- it was equal parts fear and wonderment.
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
25. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 8:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 8:42 PM EDT
Of course it was! I was just joking around, as I think others were too.

Sarah said that if they learned to be human (what it means to be human), then there would be no real difference.

That these actors can convey so much range in one simple facial expression (as Brian and Summer, and the rest do), they are a talented bunch and should be allowed to continue on with the program for as long as possible.

There is so much potential to mine. It will just take a lot of effort and skill on the writing and directing fronts. If they continue improving and strengthening and making things POP more (better drama, better brain candy, better suspense, better humor, and humanity/realism to the characters, etc.) like they showed in the first season, then Season 2 and beyond will be something special.

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intrepid
intrepid
26. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 9:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 9:47 PM EDT
Derek and his men are sent back 20 years to 2007, to do what exactly?
“Set up a safe house, gather Intel then what? Hang in there baby until someone else shows up and gives us more orders?”
So we know they were supposed to be contacted but they don’t know by who, or at least the soldiers don’t know, Derek on the other hand has clearly more information, and his look at Andy and his statement that they can change everything point to either him being given additional orders or that he has his own agenda.
Derek sees Cameron in the bunker and knows she’s a Terminator and cry’s “metal”. now you can argue that he’s seen her model before or he’s seen her in the basement but at this point that’s not what’s important, what is important is that he, and by inference the majority of the resistance don’t know they have reprogrammed Terminators working for them and he has to be put strait by Major General Perry.
“She lies” an interesting choice of words because it infers that she at some point told Derek an untruth, I don’t recall her lying to Derek in the flashback episode so it could be another clue to the basement and what happened there.
“We go where we are told, we do as were told” when Derek makes this statement he’s clearly indicating he doesn’t question orders but that is before his trip to the basement and Andy’s confession as well as the whole time travelling thing, that’s a lot of new information to absorb and he maybe questioning a lot now.
Derek and Cameron clearly have been given orders by future john but just what exactly those orders are is yet to be revealed, the thing is just how much does one know of the others orders, it’s going to be interesting to see if one or the other is going to go off mission or that they have to hide their mission goals from present john or Sarah.
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DrMabuse
27. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 10:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 10:07 PM EDT
"I'm starting to wonder if Krazykaleb is right about all of us thinking with our Johnsons (see Cameron/John making love thread)! ;-)

Seriously though, I think Derek's look while watching Cameron dance was one of disbelief and faint horror that the machines he hates with a passion is somewhat gaining...humanity. Dance is a wholly unnecessary and inefficient use of time for a robot, and Derek knows it. By Cameron exploring dance, Derek realizes that she has the capacity to grow beyond her programming.

His look - to me, anyway - was equal parts fear and wonderment."
I'm not thinking with my Johnson. Mines called Conan.:p

Yeah, to the rest of your post.
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
28. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 10:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 10:10 PM EDT
"His look - to me, anyway - was equal parts fear and wonderment."
I agree he is scared and in wonderment. He's afraid of their potential and what are they thinking? He knows their history so he may be having a hard time comprehending it all. So yes he is scared. But also awed by the mystery they hold within themselves.
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
29. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 10:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 10:19 PM EDT
"If John did create Cameron we have no evidence that he told Derek. It's obvious that John doesn't share everything about what is going on -- he doesn't explain himself -- he simply gives orders that he expects to be obeyed.

As for her just imitating a person who was dancing I think that the whole point of the scene with the dancing was to show that she had moved beyond moving mechanically and was actually expressing herself from the soul.If she was just imitating she would have still been moving mechanically.

It wasn't that she danced that floored Derek -- it was how she danced. Machines aren't supposed to express themselves that way. It was in total opposition to what Sarah was saying in the voice over -- that the machines cannot create art - that was exactly what Cameron was doing.

I think you're right sidspappy -- it was equal parts fear and wonderment."
Cameron is most likely a reversed engineered version TOK (Cameron) not a unique John Connor creation. This is because Derek recognized her in the future as a bad Terminator. He yelled, "METAL!!!" So I'm sure he's encountered a bad version of her terminator model. So their must be more than one of her.
So with regard to her being unique. She may be a refurbished/custom model. Or a reverse engineered model with enhancements made by John Connor. So all the uniqueness she may have may be an alteration by John Conner himself. But not a brand new creation by John.
Just Sharing my Observation of episode 7 and 8
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rjlohr
rjlohr
30. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 10:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 10:19 PM EDT
I thought Derek was floored by the idea that a terminator could share in emotion (there a lot more emotions than human - think about your dog that greets you with abandon after you've left the house for 2 mintues). I think Cameron was working towards knowing how to cancel out Skynet (remember her telling John when he was removing her brain chip - "this isn't the first time we've done this"). I WANT MORE SHOWS!!!!!! 1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    

Modron
31. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 20 2008, 10:23 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 20 2008, 10:23 PM EDT
"I know it's fun to guess and predict. But maybe he just simply hates those damn machines and doesn't care if one is working on their side or not, he friggin hates them. "
This my take on it.
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LiquidMetal
32. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 21 2008, 9:14 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 21 2008, 9:14 AM EDT
"This my take on it."
Mine too. While future John gave Derek orders to work with Cameron, he continues grappling with being "friendly" with "metal". Remember, he has been fighting "metal" for years and now he essentially has to stop. That would be very difficult for anyone when the "metal" is trying to whack you!

I would expect his reactions and am not surprised.
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Michelle67D
Michelle67D
33. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 21 2008, 11:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 21 2008, 11:32 AM EDT
"
“She lies” an interesting choice of words because it infers that she at some point told Derek an untruth, I don’t recall her lying to Derek in the flashback episode so it could be another clue to the basement and what happened there.
"
I think that at some point Derek may have thought Cameron was human. He either knew her before(she was among the resistance as an infiltrator or as a soldier with John but unknown as a machine to anyone but the higher ups in John's camp) and he found out she was a machine in the basement(whether it was the real Cameron or a different version of her or just another of her model that looked like her).

It might even be that one of the reason's that Derek was so eager to get to John besides wanting to know what happened to Kyle was that he wanted to report that a girl that was with the resistance was really a machine and when he saw she was already with the higher ups gut reaction kicked in and he pulled a gun on her.

There is also the possibility that Cameron purposely fooled Derek in the basement to get information out of him. If she came across as just another pow of skynet he might spill his guts. But at some point in the interrogation she reveals what she really is.

Then the whole thing could just simply be that he knows machines lie and she's a machine.

I think I would like it better if she had fooled him at some point and she had wound up lying to him -- would be more interesting I think. Of course I think he and Cameron's still have secrets that they haven't told Sarah and John.
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs
34. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 21 2008, 1:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 21 2008, 1:15 PM EDT
I have expanded upon my thoughts on this topic starting on page 4 of a different thread I started a while back. I tied it into a song.

http://sarahconnor.wetpaint.com/thread/1272192/BIG+opening+bookend+song+for+Season+2%3F%3F++Would+this+work+for+you%3F?offset=60

I hope you'll read through it, take a listen to Johnny Cash's "Hurt" and let me know what you think.

Thanks!
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Shrapnel20
35. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 24 2008, 12:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2008, 12:55 PM EDT
"If John did create Cameron we have no evidence that he told Derek. It's obvious that John doesn't share everything about what is going on -- he doesn't explain himself -- he simply gives orders that he expects to be obeyed.

As for her just imitating a person who was dancing I think that the whole point of the scene with the dancing was to show that she had moved beyond moving mechanically and was actually expressing herself from the soul.If she was just imitating she would have still been moving mechanically.

It wasn't that she danced that floored Derek -- it was how she danced. Machines aren't supposed to express themselves that way. It was in total opposition to what Sarah was saying in the voice over -- that the machines cannot create art - that was exactly what Cameron was doing.

I think you're right sidspappy -- it was equal parts fear and wonderment."
I'm 100% convinced that Cameron is not a unique creation by John Connor. As for the rest of it, I refuse to believe you are right, mostly because I don't want you to be right. If you are, it makes this series too much like Star Trek TNG. My vision of what Terminator is all about is the focus on the humans and their fight for survival. The Terminators are merely the antagonists. In a movie about a Tornado rampaging the countryside, you wouldn't focus on the Tornado's personality, so the same should be said about the Terminators. I see them more as a force of nature type antagonist, not an evil humanistic one.
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LiquidMetal
36. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 24 2008, 1:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2008, 1:15 PM EDT
"I'm 100% convinced that Cameron is not a unique creation by John Connor. As for the rest of it, I refuse to believe you are right, mostly because I don't want you to be right. If you are, it makes this series too much like Star Trek TNG. My vision of what Terminator is all about is the focus on the humans and their fight for survival. The Terminators are merely the antagonists. In a movie about a Tornado rampaging the countryside, you wouldn't focus on the Tornado's personality, so the same should be said about the Terminators. I see them more as a force of nature type antagonist, not an evil humanistic one."
Maybe Cameron is more like Seven of Nine. Human first, and altered by the Borg. Cameron could have been a fighter in the war on machines, and was "saved" by future John. Using Skynet's own tools, John "created" Cameron. Maybe all that was left of Cameron was her brain which he placed onto a terminator's body. Not as farfetched as it sounds, since this was a premise of a Star Trek episode where Spock's brain was stolen and used to run a computer system similar to Skynet.
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LiquidMetal
37. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 24 2008, 1:16 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2008, 1:16 PM EDT
"Maybe Cameron is more like Seven of Nine. Human first, and altered by the Borg. Cameron could have been a fighter in the war on machines, and was "saved" by future John. Using Skynet's own tools, John "created" Cameron. Maybe all that was left of Cameron was her brain which he placed onto a terminator's body. Not as farfetched as it sounds, since this was a premise of a Star Trek episode where Spock's brain was stolen and used to run a computer system similar to Skynet."
...maybe Cameron is future John's daughter!
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Immortaljosh
Immortaljosh
38. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 24 2008, 1:59 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2008, 1:59 PM EDT
I bet that when that Terminator took Derek into the basement of that house with the piano music playing, that Cameron was in there. That explains how he was able to identity her as a "metal" at HQ. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Platinumdude
Platinumdude
39. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 24 2008, 2:27 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 24 2008, 2:27 PM EDT
"One thng we all know, is that Derek has some history (or future) with Cameron that we don't know about. What do you think the connection is between Derek Reese and Cameron Phllips?

Post your ideas here and check out the Sarah Connor Chronicles: Season 2 Predictions page for more dishing and dissecting on Season 1!
"
i think that in the future, cameron was an infiltrator terminator that killed alot of Tech-com soldiers, and that once she was captured and reprogramed she turned bad again, because Cameron said "they sometimes go bad" so maybe she did and that is why Derek doesn't trust her, even though she has been reprogramed again
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