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dukejw
dukejw
60. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Mar 30 2008, 10:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 30 2008, 10:06 PM EDT
"Highly improbable John Connor and the resistance could manage to create a flesh covered terminator of their own. Given the severe limitations in terms of technology and resources imposed on them by the conditions of fighting a guerilla war against Skynet.

The "Vick" model T-888 registering Cameron as a 'unknown cyborg' could simply mean that it doesn't recognise that specific terminator. Unless it's a mich newer model that Skynet made after "Vick" was activated?"
I disagree. The Resistance Fighter "RF" would have several different mission by John and his top brass. Food weponds medical ammo ect, ect. Fight fire with fire. Fight technology with tecnology is a major way to win for the RF. It is a must. In the bank vault Cameron said one of THEIR best engineer they have came back and built that TDM for her and John and Sarah to use. With 1960's technology !!! Skynet and John Connor are shall we say useing each other technology to win. After JD there is raw material lying on groung every were to find and use. The terminators were hauling off a large tubro fan engine WHY??? The RF MUST build weponds to beat skynet. Skynet will not give them to the RF. Skynet distroyed everything start over from anew. The RF will use injury men , women and childern to build tools to fight skynet they will want too to do their part for freedom from skynet. This is a ALL or NOTHING war. Ever one works to save this plant like we did in WW ll to win. With the Cameron model the key word from the terminator that scaned her is unknow CYBORG not unknow terminator. John knows more and is doing more than we are told. The RF are a big group of people skynet could not kill on JD millions are left in outside areas of attacks of nukes on major citys. Then why the camps running 24-7 to kill a small number of humans not likely I think.
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PiotrT
PiotrT
61. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 6:40 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 6:40 AM EDT
"I disagree. The Resistance Fighter "RF" would have several different mission by John and his top brass. Food weponds medical ammo ect, ect. Fight fire with fire. Fight technology with tecnology is a major way to win for the RF. It is a must. In the bank vault Cameron said one of THEIR best engineer they have came back and built that TDM for her and John and Sarah to use. With 1960's technology !!! Skynet and John Connor are shall we say useing each other technology to win. After JD there is raw material lying on groung every were to find and use. The terminators were hauling off a large tubro fan engine WHY??? The RF MUST build weponds to beat skynet. Skynet will not give them to the RF. Skynet distroyed everything start over from anew. The RF will use injury men , women and childern to build tools to fight skynet they will want too to do their part for freedom from skynet. This is a ALL or NOTHING war. Ever one works to save this plant like we did in WW ll to win. With the Cameron model the key word from the terminator that scaned her is unknow CYBORG not unknow terminator. John knows more and is doing more than we are told. The RF are a big group of people skynet could not kill on JD millions are left in outside areas of attacks of nukes on major citys. Then why the camps running 24-7 to kill a small number of humans not likely I think. "
This is correct, what we have here is a remainder of humanity not toasted on Judgement day, living in small groups underground and in hiding. As you say food, and weapons are the order of the day. Small calibre weapons are useless against the foe, so heavy weaponry, explosives and particle beam or energy weapons of some description would be needed to give them a realistic edge. I do not see them building laboratories of their own but maybe taking over unused facilities the may discover or Skynet factories they take over. However they need a scientific base with research and the personnel to do it who can be protected for long enough to produce results. I wonder if some sort of EMP weapon might not be effective against the cyborgs? Unless of course their skeleton acts as a Faraday cage? No I think the simple fact is that they are not in a position to develop their own weapons but just reuse whatever they can appropriate from Skynet. Each side obviously sees the past as being crucial as the only way to 'win' the war is to prevent Skynet from ev.er being built. That said intelligent computing will come to pass - inevitably I would say. It's what we want. Read this article from the weekend paper and you'll see what I mean!
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article3645114.ece
Funny stuff no? Sex it would seem is the driving force in our universe! Interestingly this avenue of research began with chess - dangerous game chess, who would have guessed!
Our military will no doubt be just as keen to have battlefield mechanoids that will do our dirty work without getting shot at.

What I want to know is Skynet's raison d'etre? What does it do after JD and what are its long term goals? Maybe it does not want to completely obliterate human kind.
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dukejw
dukejw
62. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 7:39 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 7:39 AM EDT
"This is correct, what we have here is a remainder of humanity not toasted on Judgement day, living in small groups underground and in hiding. As you say food, and weapons are the order of the day. Small calibre weapons are useless against the foe, so heavy weaponry, explosives and particle beam or energy weapons of some description would be needed to give them a realistic edge. I do not see them building laboratories of their own but maybe taking over unused facilities the may discover or Skynet factories they take over. However they need a scientific base with research and the personnel to do it who can be protected for long enough to produce results. I wonder if some sort of EMP weapon might not be effective against the cyborgs? Unless of course their skeleton acts as a Faraday cage? No I think the simple fact is that they are not in a position to develop their own weapons but just reuse whatever they can appropriate from Skynet. Each side obviously sees the past as being crucial as the only way to 'win' the war is to prevent Skynet from ev.er being built. That said intelligent computing will come to pass - inevitably I would say. It's what we want. Read this article from the weekend paper and you'll see what I mean!
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article3645114.ece
Funny stuff no? Sex it would seem is the driving force in our universe! Interestingly this avenue of research began with chess - dangerous game chess, who would have guessed!
Our military will no doubt be just as keen to have battlefield mechanoids that will do our dirty work without getting shot at.

What I want to know is Skynet's raison d'etre? What does it do after JD and what are its long term goals? Maybe it does not want to completely obliterate human kind."
The expert do not think that a EMP discharged on america would stop cars computers, the metal body would be enough to stop it. If memory serve me if you had a hunk of metal in your hand there is only 5 or 6 machineing process you could do to it and behold you have a working part. In afganstan in small shops the size of a bedroon there are able to make you a colt 1911 gun ready to go. They make the casting for the wright bros kitty hawk flyer engine all to do is machineing no problem. The coltran ingets they had and Cameron five finger discounted one , melt it pour in mold then machine a part. You do not need a machine weighting 1 ton or so to make a Cameron model. They have machine small enough to fit on a coffee table. When you have your ass blown up by nukes . The human race is at stake you get your shit together and make things. I read last week someone has a AI that think like a 4 year old. . Skynet goal same as The Borg what else.
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LiquidMetal
63. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 7:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 7:51 AM EDT
"The expert do not think that a EMP discharged on america would stop cars computers, the metal body would be enough to stop it. If memory serve me if you had a hunk of metal in your hand there is only 5 or 6 machineing process you could do to it and behold you have a working part. In afganstan in small shops the size of a bedroon there are able to make you a colt 1911 gun ready to go. They make the casting for the wright bros kitty hawk flyer engine all to do is machineing no problem. The coltran ingets they had and Cameron five finger discounted one , melt it pour in mold then machine a part. You do not need a machine weighting 1 ton or so to make a Cameron model. They have machine small enough to fit on a coffee table. When you have your ass blown up by nukes . The human race is at stake you get your shit together and make things. I read last week someone has a AI that think like a 4 year old. . Skynet goal same as The Borg what else. "
See the follow-on Matrix movies for what happens after JD. See year 2199 (or somewhere around there, they aren't quite sure what year it is).
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dukejw
dukejw
64. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 7:56 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 7:56 AM EDT
hey,PiotrT are you living across the pond. I am here in the land of BBQ [Kansas City MO] I do a real nice job of smoking meat ,fish , vegetable. Do tell about the Quad mother board how did you do it. I look at your profile looks good. I can not get my profile to work windows keep me from putting in data? I think you are from UK , if so where. Dukejw Do you find this valuable?    
PiotrT
PiotrT
65. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 6:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 6:33 PM EDT
"The expert do not think that a EMP discharged on america would stop cars computers, the metal body would be enough to stop it. If memory serve me if you had a hunk of metal in your hand there is only 5 or 6 machineing process you could do to it and behold you have a working part. In afganstan in small shops the size of a bedroon there are able to make you a colt 1911 gun ready to go. They make the casting for the wright bros kitty hawk flyer engine all to do is machineing no problem. The coltran ingets they had and Cameron five finger discounted one , melt it pour in mold then machine a part. You do not need a machine weighting 1 ton or so to make a Cameron model. They have machine small enough to fit on a coffee table. When you have your ass blown up by nukes . The human race is at stake you get your shit together and make things. I read last week someone has a AI that think like a 4 year old. . Skynet goal same as The Borg what else. "
Hi Dukejw. Well I suppose it depends on the energy of an EMP pulse, I wasn't thinking of a tactical nuke but more along the lines of something that could be handheld or at least portable have a look at this vid which is quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odJKYTzXg8
So your car will probably not be working! If you fancy building one kits from http://www.plans-kits.com/kits.html
Yup have seen docos about the gunsmiths in bandit country Afghan/Pakistan, they are remarkable technicians, but that's it, they do copies. Don't know how reliable their weapons are but presumably most are for show and will not see hard service. Agree machining is no problem but alloy production may well be. May be cast - too hard for machining. Smelting works big noisy and hot...stand out like sore thumb! Take too lomg to do on small scale - if you want to build an army that is.
You are right about necessity of situation, but never forget just how much food is required so you are ne.ver going to get a lot of people in one spot as you just cannot feed them. Animal husbandry difficult and veg takes time to grow - the devil is in the detail.
The Borg were not too bright, they sought not to develop but to drag everyone down (or up) to their level. Skynet I think has plans for humanity otherwise it could have tried harder to kill the remainder - easier said than done? I think not, biological and chemical toxins would do the job.
AI of a 4 year old, you would not let a 4 year old run anything! Be scared when they get to the AI of a teenager. It is one thing to think like a human, but another to think as a human. You have to inject the random factor of the way our brains work not just attempt to write software that mimics us. You will nev.er get this with silicon.
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LiquidMetal
66. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 6:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 6:43 PM EDT
Back to the original question:

IMO Derek and Cameron were lovers in the future war. Cameron was a Lieutenant in John's Tech-Com army, and was seriously injured and almost killed. John, aware of Derek's love of Cameron, saved her "life" by using Skynet's technology. In essence, he rebuilt her, something akin to RoboCop. She has no memory of her previous "life" or her relationship with Derek. However, Derek remembers and cannot come to grips with what Cameron is now: the very thing he hates - a Terminator. Also explains why Derek is somewhat PO'd with both present and future John.

My $.02 cents.
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PiotrT
PiotrT
67. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 7:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 7:01 PM EDT
"hey,PiotrT are you living across the pond. I am here in the land of BBQ [Kansas City MO] I do a real nice job of smoking meat ,fish , vegetable. Do tell about the Quad mother board how did you do it. I look at your profile looks good. I can not get my profile to work windows keep me from putting in data? I think you are from UK , if so where. Dukejw"
Yes live in UK and come and go from here to Australia, have dual citizenship. When in England live in Exeter. Have you visited? Sounds good where you are although Australia likes to think of itself as the land of the barbie as well!
Quad computer is great after my slow Athlon! If you want to see the stuff I put in here are the links:
Mobo: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-258-AS
CPU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-172-IN (very overclocakble)
GPU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-129-LT
Memory: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-093-CR
HSF: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-043-TR
Case: http://www.coolermaster.com/microsite/Cosmos/
PSU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-149-CM&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat
HDD x3: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-054-SA
Actually screwing it all together is pretty easy just RTFM! Lots of online guides out there to show you how such as http://techreport.com/articles.x/13671
You can find pictures such as these of the thing http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5557273

Give your profile another go may have been website prob windows shouldn't interfere!
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LiquidMetal
68. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 1 2008, 7:04 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 1 2008, 7:04 PM EDT
"Yes live in UK and come and go from here to Australia, have dual citizenship. When in England live in Exeter. Have you visited? Sounds good where you are although Australia likes to think of itself as the land of the barbie as well!
Quad computer is great after my slow Athlon! If you want to see the stuff I put in here are the links:
Mobo: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-258-AS
CPU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CP-172-IN (very overclocakble)
GPU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-129-LT
Memory: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MY-093-CR
HSF: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HS-043-TR
Case: http://www.coolermaster.com/microsite/Cosmos/
PSU: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-149-CM&groupid=701&catid=123&subcat
HDD x3: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-054-SA
Actually screwing it all together is pretty easy just RTFM! Lots of online guides out there to show you how such as http://techreport.com/articles.x/13671
You can find pictures such as these of the thing http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=5557273

Give your profile another go may have been website prob windows shouldn't interfere!"
Not that I am the wiki police or anything, but your two-way conversation would be suited using emails. Thx!
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dukejw
dukejw
69. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 2:57 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 2:57 AM EDT
"Back to the original question:

IMO Derek and Cameron were lovers in the future war. Cameron was a Lieutenant in John's Tech-Com army, and was seriously injured and almost killed. John, aware of Derek's love of Cameron, saved her "life" by using Skynet's technology. In essence, he rebuilt her, something akin to RoboCop. She has no memory of her previous "life" or her relationship with Derek. However, Derek remembers and cannot come to grips with what Cameron is now: the very thing he hates - a Terminator. Also explains why Derek is somewhat PO'd with both present and future John.

My $.02 cents."
hmmmm that could work but, Cameron is 100 precent machime.
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dukejw
dukejw
70. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 3:27 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 3:27 AM EDT
"Hi Dukejw. Well I suppose it depends on the energy of an EMP pulse, I wasn't thinking of a tactical nuke but more along the lines of something that could be handheld or at least portable have a look at this vid which is quite interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odJKYTzXg8
So your car will probably not be working! If you fancy building one kits from http://www.plans-kits.com/kits.html
Yup have seen docos about the gunsmiths in bandit country Afghan/Pakistan, they are remarkable technicians, but that's it, they do copies. Don't know how reliable their weapons are but presumably most are for show and will not see hard service. Agree machining is no problem but alloy production may well be. May be cast - too hard for machining. Smelting works big noisy and hot...stand out like sore thumb! Take too lomg to do on small scale - if you want to build an army that is.
You are right about necessity of situation, but never forget just how much food is required so you are ne.ver going to get a lot of people in one spot as you just cannot feed them. Animal husbandry difficult and veg takes time to grow - the devil is in the detail.
The Borg were not too bright, they sought not to develop but to drag everyone down (or up) to their level. Skynet I think has plans for humanity otherwise it could have tried harder to kill the remainder - easier said than done? I think not, biological and chemical toxins would do the job.
AI of a 4 year old, you would not let a 4 year old run anything! Be scared when they get to the AI of a teenager. It is one thing to think like a human, but another to think as a human. You have to inject the random factor of the way our brains work not just attempt to write software that mimics us. You will nev.er get this with silicon."
On smelting and casting you are still thinking way too big. Here in blue springs mo east of KCMO. A man for fifty years in a shop the size of 8 cars he made fishing lures. Smeited the matal and pour into casts. He supplyed 25 percent of the USA lures. That millions a year in small shop. I have drove by it for decades and did not know till he died. The bigest peice a terminator needs is hip, chest peice . Size of 4 loafs of bread. You make all the little peices here and there then bring together in final production plant a small one assemble and we have Camerons models. People do not know how little a human can survive on. 80 procent is to heat us the rest to run us. When one has camps running 24/7 to kill humans one is trying hard. When Skynet did JD it did not have alot of production itself. Skynet acted too quickly for itself. Remember, Aware of itself, micro second deem human a threat, then launch. Kind of an even start for Humans and Skynet.
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dukejw
dukejw
71. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 9:37 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 9:37 AM EDT
Hey Piotr T Lets try this as not to spoil this sight. www,pyxiss@sbcglobal.net Dukejw 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

c96
72. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 11:03 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 11:03 AM EDT
Maybe they both have a human brain :)

Maybe Cameron was a new batch with a real neural net, that is human like, to adapt learn and grow, designed mainly to infiltrate but works of a human wiped clean brain :) but they brain they used was from Dereks girlfriend or Johns wife or of Sarah conner (like RoboCop)... Or Derek had an implant put in at the basement where he is controlled by skynet to infiltrate John...

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FrenchFanofTSCC
FrenchFanofTSCC
73. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 11:15 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 11:15 AM EDT
u right Dereck hate all Cyborgs and its his nighmares,but i think Cameron know s something about Dereck too,when they talk arround the table in the kitchen,so many questions about the past,can't wait for season 2 !!!!! Do you find this valuable?    
Michelle67D
Michelle67D
74. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 11:25 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 11:25 AM EDT
There is a connection of some kind there. The basement ... probably but it may be more than that. I remember that one of the conversation's Derek had with Sarah when he wanted her to get rid of Cameron was that John(future John) didn't know everything.

Derek knows something about Cameron that John didn't know(or something he thinks John didn't know). It's possible John did know and that what was so bad that it would cause Derek to not use the machines didn't phase John and he used them anyway. Maybe that idea is something Derek can't come to terms with.
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c96
75. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 1:45 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 1:45 PM EDT
"Derek knows something about Cameron that John didn't know(or something he thinks John didn't know). It's possible John did know and that what was so bad that it would cause Derek to not use the machines didn't phase John and he used them anyway. Maybe that idea is something Derek can't come to terms with."
Exactly maybe Cameron has Sarah's brain??? :) Im being serious here, maybe she has been programmed by Sarah not connor or she was made with the thoughts of Sarah, or someone John knows, cos in one of the earlier episodes, John did say there is something familiar about you or something along those lines to Cameron...
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Michelle67D
Michelle67D
76. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 4:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 4:21 PM EDT
I don't remember the familiar thing.

I don't think she could have Sarah's literal brain since she died long before judgement day but it is possible that if John reprogrammed her he might have added little touches that reminded him of his mother. Or maybe he just subconsciously programmed her to be his perfect match.

Of course I suppose they could always have her being a duplicate of someone John or Derek knew in the future (probably Derek since he's had such an adverse reaction to her whereas John used her to fight for the resistance.)

If they are using human body parts(like brains as storage devices in some of the models) in the future to incorporate with the machines that really could have been something that would have scared Derek if he saw something to that affect in the basement.

I really think coming up with what would be something that would completely devastate a person to find out about a machine is the key to finding out what happened in the basement. Something that humans wouldn't think that machines would be capable of doing.
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SusanWillow
SusanWillow
77. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 9:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 9:10 PM EDT
"If they are using human body parts(like brains as storage devices in some of the models) in the future to incorporate with the machines that really could have been something that would have scared Derek if he saw something to that affect in the basement.

I really think coming up with what would be something that would completely devastate a person to find out about a machine is the key to finding out what happened in the basement. Something that humans wouldn't think that machines would be capable of doing."
I think using human brains is very possible. The human brain is essentially just a computer but in flesh form.
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Michelle67D
Michelle67D
78. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 2 2008, 9:18 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 2 2008, 9:18 PM EDT
"I think using human brains is very possible. The human brain is essentially just a computer but in flesh form. "
Very true. And if one of their main purposes was to become human(for whatever reason -- infiltration or some hidden agenda) who knows what advantages using a human brain in conjunction with the chip might afford them.
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c96
79. RE: What do you think the connection is between Derek and Cameron?
Apr 3 2008, 3:55 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 3 2008, 3:55 AM EDT
See the human brain thing would also explain the ballet dancing and Dereks amazement... 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
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