Location: Sarah Connor Chronicles: Season 2 Predictions and Plot Danglers

Discussion: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!Reported This is a featured thread

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GoldenBuffy
GoldenBuffy
20. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 8:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 8:38 AM EDT
Yeah, JD is going to happen. But do you think that in the big picture Skynet planed this? Knowing that after it's first terminator failed, that by sending one after Jogn in 91 would cause him and his mother to go an destroy Cyberdyne systems? Nowing that by destroying the building and the techonology it would delay JD and therefore giving Skynet even more time to evolve and have better technology come the time that it does become selfaware? Do you find this valuable?    

Modron
21. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 6:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 6:19 PM EDT
"By delaying Judgment day it allows Skynet access to more sophisticated technology. since they say that Skynet creates feasible time travel in 2028 or so, the with more technology what could Skynet do? Humans conceded that they do not have the education/ resources in the future to develop their own technological base, so as they delay J-day, Skynet grows more powerful. The humans are altering history in this timeline, but perhaps not for the better of themselves. Before they start sending back all these people they should have a well thought out strategy on how they intend to impeded Skynet's process, consider all the repercussions and possibilities and potential outcomes. If the future is not set, then that means Skynet could end up winning too. By giving it a more solid technological base to work with we may be doing that. "
I don't see a "Final Destination" - you can't escape your fate-, theme in the Terminators stories, pretty much the opposite, especially in T2 when The Terminator goes good. But, it's a viable storyline. I wouldn't watch the series if this was the direction it goes in.

I also understand that postponing Judgment Day bring sthe possibility of Skynet getting more advanced technologies.

I just think it makes humans seem like losers, and I fail to see the point of going in that direction.
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Immortaljosh
Immortaljosh
22. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 6:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 6:21 PM EDT
Definetly.
I mean look at back in the 90s. We had CD players (or tape players), not we have iPods.
Now the military has lazer weapons. Delaying JDay definetly just gave Skynet the upper hand.
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Modron
23. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 6:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 6:29 PM EDT
"Definetly.
I mean look at back in the 90s. We had CD players (or tape players), not we have iPods.
Now the military has lazer weapons. Delaying JDay definetly just gave Skynet the upper hand."
I think the SCC team sees the difference in the seriousness of a terminator getting it's hands on "The Turk: and a terminator getting it's hands on an eight-track player. They certainly understood the importance of stopping the traffic light system in the finale. I just don't think the humans are so stupid that they can't understand what technologies have the most benefit to Skynet. Seems to me Sarah Connor has understood this since T2.
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klausethecombustible
24. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 6:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 6:58 PM EDT
"there are 2 theories for effects of time travelling.
1) there is no paradox, if u exist now, u exist any point in time, there is no law of physics (that we know of yet) to contradict that. does matter what u do, future remains unchanged
2) there are paradoxes, if u killed ur grandpa, u cease to exist & etc.

terminator franchise did a very horrible job on this, they included elements of both. thats why is confusing as hell"
on your note, 1) there is no paradox, if u exist now, u exist any point in time, there is no law of physics (that we know of yet) to contradict that. does matter what u do, future remains unchanged.

Science does indeed suggest that, however, it couldn't be used in the series, really, at least the part about "the future remains unchanged" ... otherwise, Judgement Day would have occured in 1997. My question is this, concerning paradox: If you set out through time to accomplish a goal (for example, destroying Skynet, but it can be anything that alters the past), and you succeed in altering the past, then in the future, you would have no reason to return to the past, as the event never occured, or never needed changing. Would this fall under the category of paradox? For example, Skynet is destroyed by a soldier sent back by Connor. Therefore, Skynet never builds the time machine, making it impossible for a soldier to be sent back to the past to destroy something (that doesn't exist anymore). What would/could happen?
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
25. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 7:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 7:13 PM EDT
I was just thinking. We have seen the younger versions of Derek and Kyle Reese.

Do you think somday skynet may find out that Kyle is John's future Dad and send back someone or somthing to kill him? Thus preventing John from ever being born!

Do you think current John and Derek in the show will have to protect John's younger Dad and Uncle?

It was somthing that came into my mind a while ago. Just wonder what you guys think with regard to this matter.
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randomicity912
randomicity912
26. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 7:24 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 7:24 PM EDT
Instead of trying to destroy Skynet they should find it and try and befriend it. If they convince it humans aren't a threat then humans and machines can co-exist and then they can get Skynet to build the time-machine and all the Terminator's so John can be born and so on and so forth. Do you find this valuable?    
Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
27. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 7:35 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 7:35 PM EDT
"Instead of trying to destroy Skynet they should find it and try and befriend it. If they convince it humans aren't a threat then humans and machines can co-exist and then they can get Skynet to build the time-machine and all the Terminator's so John can be born and so on and so forth. "
Yes I agree with you totally. When it comes to changing the future. I think they need to do one of two things.

1- Prevent skynet from being built and have a ending simular to that of Terminator-2: Judement Day's alternate ending when Sarah Connor is Chronicleing her life in a tape recorder.

2-Skynet get's delayed so much. That Technology becomes advanced enough for Skynet to become human/humble/emtional. Thus resulting in peace.

So far though we know skynet hasn't been prevent. But we do know it has been delayed. And Andy Good said that the first turk was like a teenager while the secound a precousous child. So we do know that skynet has changed. Sarah Connor even asked if the Turk is more human. In the episode that Andy Good get's murdered by Derek Reese.
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intrepid
intrepid
28. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 7:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 7:38 PM EDT
If you want a paradox I’ll give you one. The first episode after John is attacked, Sarah decides to go over the boarder which Cameron goes along with but after a talk with John changes her mind and decides to stay and fight.
Cameron then takes them to a time machine which transports them to 2007 where some resistance fighters are “waiting” for them to show up!
For Cameron to know about the time machine and resistance fighters they would have had to have been sent back before Cameron was.
So here’s a curly question for you, was it Sarah decision that ultimately got them to our time or was it future John? Is Sarah in charge of her own fate or not?
And why didn’t Cameron pipe up about future John’s plan earlier?
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Modron
29. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 8:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 8:05 PM EDT
"For example, Skynet is destroyed by a soldier sent back by Connor.


Therefore, Skynet never builds the time machine, making it impossible for a soldier to be sent back to the past to destroy something (that doesn't exist anymore). What would/could happen?"
If Skynet is destroyed by a soldier sent back by future John Connor and along with it Judgement Day - there would be no need for a time machine. If a random lightning strike destroyed Skynet and along with it the time machine and Judgement Day there would be no need to send a soldier back. There woud be no future Resistance from which to send a soldier. And assuming present John Connor's memories aren't altered by the change in the past (which I don't believe they would be the way time travel in the T universe works) he would be aware of the the end of Skynet and Judgement Day and that his future would now be radically different.

It's not a paradox. It's not me taking two different routes to get to the same supermarket on successive Saturdays. It me going to different supermarkets on successive Saturdays. I'm not going to end up in the same place: One future is just different from the other.
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
30. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 9:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 9:07 PM EDT
"If you want a paradox I’ll give you one. The first episode after John is attacked, Sarah decides to go over the boarder which Cameron goes along with but after a talk with John changes her mind and decides to stay and fight.
Cameron then takes them to a time machine which transports them to 2007 where some resistance fighters are “waiting” for them to show up!
For Cameron to know about the time machine and resistance fighters they would have had to have been sent back before Cameron was.
So here’s a curly question for you, was it Sarah decision that ultimately got them to our time or was it future John? Is Sarah in charge of her own fate or not?
And why didn’t Cameron pipe up about future John’s plan earlier?"
She may have mission objective from John Connor himself. So she has been programed as to what to do. And how to convince people correctly.
And Yes Sarah is in charge of her own fate she has free will. That is why Cameron keeps secrets from her and John. This is so that she won't interfere with time too much. It was Camerons decision that Got them to the future. Because she was programed by John to do that.
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
31. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 9:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 9:07 PM EDT
"She may have mission objective from John Connor himself. So she has been programed as to what to do. And how to convince people correctly.
And Yes Sarah is in charge of her own fate she has free will. That is why Cameron keeps secrets from her and John. This is so that she won't interfere with time too much. It was Camerons decision that Got them to the future. Because she was programed by John to do that."
When I mean she I mean Cameron was programed
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intrepid
intrepid
32. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 11:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 11:20 PM EDT
"She may have mission objective from John Connor himself. So she has been programed as to what to do. And how to convince people correctly.
And Yes Sarah is in charge of her own fate she has free will. That is why Cameron keeps secrets from her and John. This is so that she won't interfere with time too much. It was Camerons decision that Got them to the future. Because she was programed by John to do that."
I don’t think you understood me correctly, sorry if I didn’t put my argument better.
Sarah had two choices flee or fight, Cameron didn’t do anything to influence her choice one way or the other
However Future John went to the trouble of putting in place the means to travel to the future as well as people to help them when they got there as if the choice had ALREADY been made!
So I ask again, did Sarah make the choice or was the choice already “predestined”? Especially when her first “choice” was to flee
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
33. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 26 2008, 11:26 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 26 2008, 11:26 PM EDT
"I don’t think you understood me correctly, sorry if I didn’t put my argument better.
Sarah had two choices flee or fight, Cameron didn’t do anything to influence her choice one way or the other
However Future John went to the trouble of putting in place the means to travel to the future as well as people to help them when they got there as if the choice had ALREADY been made!
So I ask again, did Sarah make the choice or was the choice already “predestined”? Especially when her first “choice” was to flee"
I think Sarah knows that her son in the future would want her to do what she did. I think it's more of a commitment to her son. Than a predestined fate. Because she still could have stayed and be killed by Cromartie or go to the future and fight. So she still had a choice mind you. The fact is that she was given a chioce.

Hope I answered your question a little bit. I'll keep thinking about it.

with respect, KrazyKaleb
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Balderdash
Balderdash
34. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 7:42 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 7:42 AM EDT
I think that somebody somewhere will build a sky net type system and would be stupid enough to turn it on.

In the Cybernetic Samurai by ? A Japanese corporation tried to out wit its competition by skipping 5th generation type AI systems to go to (and develop) a 6th generation self aware computer. The Corporation was attacked through various electronic means by its rivals triggering a response. The response was to take over the rivals using its more advanced systems to outwit the other companies security measures. The point being that Skynet if the Connors were to thwart the 'Skynet Project' Judgement Day could occur through another System fulfilling that role through the ongoing march of technology.

I believe that the question posed by such programmes as this BSG and Blade Runner is how far as a society do we want technology to be developed and could we stop the progress of technology any way. Nothing built by man is 100% reliable.
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LiquidMetal
35. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 8:23 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 8:23 AM EDT
Actually, I though present John and Sarah made the final choice together. After Cameron explains the future, they decide to fight rather than run to Mexico.

Also, didn't Cameron alude that Skynet was actually in space?
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intrepid
intrepid
36. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 9:09 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 9:09 AM EDT
"Actually, I though present John and Sarah made the final choice together. After Cameron explains the future, they decide to fight rather than run to Mexico.
"
Yes I’m glad you pointed that out, John doesn’t want to run he wants Sarah to try again to stop skynet but the opportunity and ability to do so had already been put in place by Future John before the decision had been made (from their point of view) and therein lies the paradox!
Cameron is quite willing to go over the boarder until the Connors changed their minds, and when the decision was made got them into the bank vault which was set up for them to travel to 2007.
So Cameron is aware of future Johns plans but doesn’t tell the Connors, which means the decision was never in doubt. And if that was the case was Sarah always “predetermined” to make the same decision?
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
37. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 11:26 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 11:26 AM EDT
"Yes I’m glad you pointed that out, John doesn’t want to run he wants Sarah to try again to stop skynet but the opportunity and ability to do so had already been put in place by Future John before the decision had been made (from their point of view) and therein lies the paradox!
Cameron is quite willing to go over the boarder until the Connors changed their minds, and when the decision was made got them into the bank vault which was set up for them to travel to 2007.
So Cameron is aware of future Johns plans but doesn’t tell the Connors, which means the decision was never in doubt. And if that was the case was Sarah always “predetermined” to make the same decision?"
That is exactly what I mean!
Paradox not predestined. Because you have to consider their are two timelines takeing place and intefearing with each other. Kind of like Deja Vu if you ever seen the movie with Denzel Washington. The Same Idea. Detective Carlin see things that he has aready done in the future but wheather that future will happen is still up to the Detectives decision to go back in time or not. He even dies but since he prevented himself from going back in time. He never really died. Only part of him did.
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Krazykaleb
Krazykaleb
38. THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 11:30 AM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 11:30 AM EDT
"Yes I’m glad you pointed that out, John doesn’t want to run he wants Sarah to try again to stop skynet but the opportunity and ability to do so had already been put in place by Future John before the decision had been made (from their point of view) and therein lies the paradox!
Cameron is quite willing to go over the boarder until the Connors changed their minds, and when the decision was made got them into the bank vault which was set up for them to travel to 2007.
So Cameron is aware of future Johns plans but doesn’t tell the Connors, which means the decision was never in doubt. And if that was the case was Sarah always “predetermined” to make the same decision?"
No she wasn't predetermined. Because if she chose not to go. I'm sure Cameron would have forced her to go or let her die by the hands of Cromartie outside the bank.
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Immortaljosh
Immortaljosh
39. RE: THE FUTURE HAS BEEN CHANGED!!!!
Mar 27 2008, 9:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 27 2008, 9:05 PM EDT
No I'm not using the Alternate Reality theory, just popular time travel theory. But if they do prevent JDay and Skynet, then they pratically kill John (anybody know what I'm talking about?) Do you find this valuable?    
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