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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
60. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 12:31 PM EDT
And besides the personal level, having Cameron, a Terminator, find her heart would be the BIGGEST weapon John could have against Skynet and its Terminator army. Think about it. You only have a handful of people to go up against impossible odds and a possible army of Terminators in the present bent on making sure Skynet is made and is defended. John has Cameron, a being that is showing a life-spark never before seen in a Terminator. If she evolves under Sarah and present John's care and love then perhaps she can unleash these positive feelings on Skynet. The only reason Skynet became bad is because it wasn't given the correct comfort to ease its fears, to give it answers to its thirsty mind. It had the military and its mission of KILL and DEFEND. It didn't find its heart, its compassion... or any values. Arnold and now Cameron are different. Arnold learned the value of life. Cameron can go further still... find love. And that, my friends, is the most powerful weapon in John's arsenal to defeat Skynet IN THE PAST. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ballerina1897 |
61. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 12:37 PM EDT
Just chucking something into the mix. I strongly feel that Cameron does have a "soul". I also feel that she may well be his wife from the future. After all, in Vick's chip, John seems very certain that Cameron will not betray him. Anyone else may, but not her. Also there are the very human things she does. Ballet, which needs a soul to be able to do it in the first place for one. The classical music we have heard playing is also connected, but exactly how, I don't know yet. Also, I feel that Derek is an imposter, a replacement for the original Derek Reese. He has already exhibited Terminator behaviour. He killed Andy, and was going to kill the two chasing policemen in Vick's Chip before Sarah stopped him. His reactions have also been wooden at times, and that's definitely not the actor's fault. Cameron has said to Derek, "I know you". She knows he's an imposter, but, for some reaon, Sarah and John have to discover that for themselves. Finally, where better to hide than in the person of John's uncle. That way, as the enemy, you know what your opponent wil do before even they do. Perfect chess tactics. John's wife (Cameron), I argue, is literally the only one whom John can trust completely and, as a machine with a soul, is Cameron so different from us? We are, after all, simply biological machines with a soul. This is very definitely the best and most thought-provoking series on TV at the moment. There are so many depths to it in so many directions. And very finally, I'll just say as a parting shot that if Cameron is written out as a result of the explosion, I shall stop watching. Summer Glau is giving one of the finiest performances I've seen. They'd be INSANE to write her character out. Long live the show!!
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
62. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 12:53 PM EDT
"Just chucking something into the mix. I strongly feel that Cameron does have a "soul". I also feel that she may well be his wife from the future. After all, in Vick's chip, John seems very certain that Cameron will not betray him. Anyone else may, but not her. Also there are the very human things she does. Ballet, which needs a soul to be able to do it in the first place for one. The classical music we have heard playing is also connected, but exactly how, I don't know yet. Also, I feel that Derek is an imposter, a replacement for the original Derek Reese. He has already exhibited Terminator behaviour. He killed Andy, and was going to kill the two chasing policemen in Vick's Chip before Sarah stopped him. His reactions have also been wooden at times, and that's definitely not the actor's fault. Cameron has said to Derek, "I know you". She knows he's an imposter, but, for some reaon, Sarah and John have to discover that for themselves. Finally, where better to hide than in the person of John's uncle. That way, as the enemy, you know what your opponent wil do before even they do. Perfect chess tactics. John's wife (Cameron), I argue, is literally the only one whom John can trust completely and, as a machine with a soul, is Cameron so different from us? We are, after all, simply biological machines with a soul. This is very definitely the best and most thought-provoking series on TV at the moment. There are so many depths to it in so many directions. And very finally, I'll just say as a parting shot that if Cameron is written out as a result of the explosion, I shall stop watching. Summer Glau is giving one of the finiest performances I've seen. They'd be INSANE to write her character out. Long live the show!!"I agree on most of the points you are making. However, again, I don't think John and Cameron are that connected yet in the now defunct future. Again, all hints seem to point to Cameron evolving more NOW than in the future. She hasn't even figured out how to operate the DVD player yet and acts goofy. She JUST read the entire dictionary on her free time. She asks basic questions of grieving and human responses to it NOW. She even acts "girly" like painting her finger nails and does that "look..see?" child like response when Sarah asks what she's doing, and has "small talk" sessions with John. To be John's wife in the future would take a fully mature sentient being who understands how to give love back. Cameron, in many ways, is still just the young girl she is emulating. Still not acting on an adult level... as a woman that John could fully invest his own heart into. Even Summer seemed to think Cameron is starting love on the most primative scale with John. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
63. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:03 PM EDT
And she calls her Cameron now. And yes I do agree that the plan might have been all long to have Sarah as Cameron's mother figure. Sarah shares the same compassionate side that John does. John probably believed that Sarah would eventually look at Cameron as a daughter. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
64. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:07 PM EDT
I just hope they don't use that as a way to have a tragic ending with the series -- like Cameron downloading into skynet and John never being able to retrieve her. Terminator tends to have sad endings - Kyle died, Arnold died.
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
65. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:09 PM EDT
"And she calls her Cameron now.or even daughter-in-law! =) 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ballerina1897 |
66. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:10 PM EDT
Interesting. However, there are a number of subtleties that I feel you may have missed. For one thing, remember, she has come back from the "defunct" future and is intelligent enough to know that as a result of going back through time she will be seeing John in a much less mature state than he is when she is with him, and that therefore she will have to act accordingly. Also, some of the things you mention are contradicted, for instance, by the "wink" she gives John in Vick's Chip. I know that's tiny, but remember how infinitely adaptable Cameron is. Also remember that she lies to him when the mission demands it, and some of this "lying" could also take the form of "primitive" behaviour that in the future she does not exhibit. Ths behaviour allows her to "fit in" better and the goofy nature of some of her acts takes away from her actual intelligence. If you doubt this, just look back in history at the way the Emperor Claudius was able to fool his opponents by acting "goofy" and "primitive" when he was actually the reverse. I shall be very interested to see how the writeers figure these things out.
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Michelle67D |
67. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:15 PM EDT
"Just chucking something into the mix. I strongly feel that Cameron does have a "soul". I also feel that she may well be his wife from the future. After all, in Vick's chip, John seems very certain that Cameron will not betray him. Anyone else may, but not her. Also there are the very human things she does. Ballet, which needs a soul to be able to do it in the first place for one. The classical music we have heard playing is also connected, but exactly how, I don't know yet. Also, I feel that Derek is an imposter, a replacement for the original Derek Reese. He has already exhibited Terminator behaviour. He killed Andy, and was going to kill the two chasing policemen in Vick's Chip before Sarah stopped him. His reactions have also been wooden at times, and that's definitely not the actor's fault. Cameron has said to Derek, "I know you". She knows he's an imposter, but, for some reaon, Sarah and John have to discover that for themselves. Finally, where better to hide than in the person of John's uncle. That way, as the enemy, you know what your opponent wil do before even they do. Perfect chess tactics. John's wife (Cameron), I argue, is literally the only one whom John can trust completely and, as a machine with a soul, is Cameron so different from us? We are, after all, simply biological machines with a soul. This is very definitely the best and most thought-provoking series on TV at the moment. There are so many depths to it in so many directions. And very finally, I'll just say as a parting shot that if Cameron is written out as a result of the explosion, I shall stop watching. Summer Glau is giving one of the finiest performances I've seen. They'd be INSANE to write her character out. Long live the show!!"I don't know if I could go along with Derek being a machine but your point about Cameron knowing and not telling reminded me of the pilot. When I re-watched it I noticed that Cromartie had to call Cameron's name twice to get her to answer roll call. She just sat there staring at him like she knew what he was. John's name was next on the list and I wondered if she didn't know and was trying to delay Cromartie finding John. I just thought it was a strange way to handle the situation. Most terminators would have identified the guy and drug John out guns blazing. She is definitely different. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
68. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:17 PM EDT
"I agree on most of the points you are making. However, again, I don't think John and Cameron are that connected yet in the now defunct future. Again, all hints seem to point to Cameron evolving more NOW than in the future. She hasn't even figured out how to operate the DVD player yet and acts goofy. She JUST read the entire dictionary on her free time. She asks basic questions of grieving and human responses to it NOW. She even acts "girly" like painting her finger nails and does that "look..see?" child like response when Sarah asks what she's doing, and has "small talk" sessions with John.The grief thing was a little odd. I would have thought with all the death and dying in the future she would have been aquainted with human reactions concerning grief. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
69. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:18 PM EDT
"or even daughter-in-law! =) "lol I almost posted that myself. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
70. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:23 PM EDT
Here's another cool thing I'd like to see happen as we're exploring human emotion, caring, and response:Sarah has roughed up Cameron, slapped Cameron, yelled at Cameron, even threatened Cameron because she is still wary of her and doesn't always like what she sees in her "Terminator" machine-like ways (and, of course, Sarah is very emotional at certain times). What I think would be a touching and fitting progression of Sarah and Cameron's bonding at some point would be to actually have Sarah hug her tightly for some deep-seated reason. Sound sappy? I don't think so. A hug is a sign of caring... another very physical human response that would mean so much in their own growing relationship. And Cameron, as a machine learning to be human, could use all the good and positive feelings she can get. Maybe at some point she would want to hug Sarah back. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
71. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:31 PM EDT
"Here's another cool thing I'd like to see happen as we're exploring human emotion, caring, and response:Actually I thought that the lingering at Cameron's bedside when John and Derek left with Cameron's chip to take down Artie was already a step in Sarah's progression of caring for Cameron. Even when she was courteous enough to ask Cameron(and not just John) if she was sure about what she and John were doing with Artie would work sounded like motherly concern to me. I think she's getting there. A hug might indeed be the next step. How she reacts to what happens to Cameron after the explosion will probably be even more revealing. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
72. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 1:39 PM EDT
"Interesting. However, there are a number of subtleties that I feel you may have missed. For one thing, remember, she has come back from the "defunct" future and is intelligent enough to know that as a result of going back through time she will be seeing John in a much less mature state than he is when she is with him, and that therefore she will have to act accordingly. Also, some of the things you mention are contradicted, for instance, by the "wink" she gives John in Vick's Chip. I know that's tiny, but remember how infinitely adaptable Cameron is. Also remember that she lies to him when the mission demands it, and some of this "lying" could also take the form of "primitive" behaviour that in the future she does not exhibit. Ths behaviour allows her to "fit in" better and the goofy nature of some of her acts takes away from her actual intelligence. If you doubt this, just look back in history at the way the Emperor Claudius was able to fool his opponents by acting "goofy" and "primitive" when he was actually the reverse. I shall be very interested to see how the writeers figure these things out."In some respects, yes, she plays the dummy, but it's around Sarah and Derek more because that's what they would expect, but remember... Cameron still asks John simple questions like about death and grieving, reads the dictionary and then starts rattling off definitions like a machine, and John has to tell her to not act like a freak. There are scenes of Cameron by herself where she acts very childlike and curious. Her response to the robot at the science conference, for one thing. She starts out being slightly mechanical with the ballet movements (doesn't quite grasp the fluidity and emotion behind it), she also basically states that her "brother" tells her to always practice and try things again to improve herself, learns from the ballet instructor... and then takes that knowledge, runs with it, and becomes WONDERFUL at it. She evolves, but at a hugely accelerated pace, like a caterpillar morphing into a butterfly in one day. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Krazykaleb |
73. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 3:29 PM EDT
"In some respects, yes, she plays the dummy, but it's around Sarah and Derek more because that's what they would expect, but remember...I agree she learns very fast. Not like your typical child would. More like how a artistic kid can learn very fast but may be a little slow at times. Remember the movie a beautiful mind he was a genius. But he went a little crazy. Not saying that Cameron will go crazy though. But you never know. Sometimes they go bad no one knows why. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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T-1976 |
74. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 5:46 PM EDT
Good points from all :) I personally think that Cameron is in her very early stages of learning. It will take time for her to be "human" enough in order to return any affection John might show her. I dont think there should be a relationship for relationship's sake...it should be a deep, meaning. And have real feeling 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Michelle67D |
75. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 6:58 PM EDT
"In some respects, yes, she plays the dummy, but it's around Sarah and Derek more because that's what they would expect, but remember...I wonder if perhaps the reason she acts different around John might be that he's the only human she knows that she can trust. I think in time she might be able to trust Sarah but Derek -- that's another matter. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
76. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 9:12 PM EDT
"I wonder if perhaps the reason she acts different around John might be that he's the only human she knows that she can trust. I think in time she might be able to trust Sarah but Derek -- that's another matter."I feel Derek might have to be reined in at some point. He sometimes seems much more unpredictable than Cameron, and that could spell trouble, whether he means to cause problems or not. Sarah will definiitely take to Cam far earlier than Derek would. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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SusanWillow |
77. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 9:37 PM EDT
"I feel Derek might have to be reined in at some point. He sometimes seems much more unpredictable than Cameron, and that could spell trouble, whether he means to cause problems or not.OH he is so here to cause trouble. A wolf in sheeps clothing. He will turn to the darkside muah ha ha. .... not skynet just kill happy... like trying to kill Cam. And he will freak out if John and Cam get together. .... and cause as much trouble there as possible. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Cuckoo4CocoaPuffs |
78. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 9:43 PM EDT
"OH he is so here to cause trouble. A wolf in sheeps clothing. He will turn to the darkside muah ha ha. .... not skynet just kill happy... like trying to kill Cam.Oh man, if Derek saw Cameron and John making out he would go ballistic. "The metal b--- is putting her claws into my nephew!" And he'd probably try to either convince John she's no good, or try to finish Cameron off the first chance got. A machine and John in love! That would be too much for this narrow minded shark. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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T-1976 |
79. RE: Official John-Cameron Thread
Apr 11 2008, 10:01 PM EDT
"Oh man, if Derek saw Cameron and John making out he would go ballistic. "The metal b--- is putting her claws into my nephew!"If they decide to kill off Derek, perhaps thats how they will do it...a fight between him and Cameron :P 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |