Sign in or 

|
g__day |
What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators?
Apr 15 2008, 5:30 AM EDT
So in the future JC leads and must have both ways and means for a very badly beaten humanity to over come a very successful SkyNet and growing army of Terminators. This poses some plot angles that have never been covered, like: 1. What could they possibly be - given the huge imbalance of odds that late in the war? Did they reverse the polarity of Skynet's distributed brain? Did they invent instance rust? They must have had one pretty powerful silver bullet - that worked on a distributed battlefield scenario - like tricking Skynet to use Vista maybe? 2. Why couldn't Skynet send back a terminator to simply pass on the countertactics to eradicate their achilles heel rather than hunt JC down the rabbit hole? Like the Wizard of Oz - if only the Wicked Witch didn't keep a bucket of water - the only thing that could kill her next to Dorothy - poor, poor thinking! So if Skynet has a "silver bullet" vunerability - why not send a Terminator back to close the loophole? Answer - then you wouldn't have a prolonged chase movie! 3. If you send back a terminator - an infiltrator unit - why not kill someone important like a senior law enforcement offical or world leader and use their resources to hunt down the Connors and/or tear the world apart? Seriously - how many folk could start a nuclear war, mobilise the CIA or FBI or KGB or GRU and get these guys to further Skynet's agenda far more than a lone gunman? 4. Why doesn't Skynet have a major super-power AI competing against it? This would make more sense as to why human could eventually win. A three way fight Russian vs American Terminators and their respective AI's - would be enough of a power balancer that humans actions could tip the fight. Without an incredibly powerful equaliser its simply doesn't make sense - the odds against are way too huge - disease, discord, famine, lack of arms, lack of intelligence - no way. 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?
Keyword tags:
None
|
|
intrepid |
1. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators?
Apr 15 2008, 6:13 AM EDT
"LOL! I think most of the answers to these questions will be discovered in the upcoming T4 film however to one small point, I don’t think skynet is resource rich enough to command overwhelming force, as can be seen in the episode “Heavy Metal“, if skynet needs to send back terminators to preposition recourses that implies a lack thereof in the future Do you find this valuable? |
|
Omegarium |
2. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators?
Apr 15 2008, 7:41 AM EDT
Chess players would tell you not to confuse tactics with strategy.
0
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
LiquidMetal |
3. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 8:50 AM EDT
Ever hear of Battlefield Deception? Without getting into a whole lot of detail, the tactics of deception are to:* Mask an increase in or redeployment of forces/weapons systems which the enemy has spotted. * Block the enemy's perception and/or identification of new weapons/forces being introduced into combat. * Reinforce the enemy's preconceived beliefs. * Distract the enemy's attention from other activities. * Overload enemy intelligence collection and analytical capabilities. * Create the illusion of strength where weakness exists. * Create the illusion of weakness where strength exists. * Accustom the enemy to particular patterns of our behavior that are exploitable at the time of our choosing. * Confuse enemy expectations about our size, activity, location, unit, time, equipment, intent, and/or style of mission execution -- TO EFFECT SURPRISE IN THESE AREAS. * Reduce the enemy's ability clearly to perceive and manage the battle. Whether the enemy is human or machines, these tactics will work. Most likely, future John is using all of these plus others to even the battlefield. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
g__day |
4. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 10:22 AM EDT
Hmm - I bet those tactics are codified... In fact a AI as smart as Skynet could and would obivously absorb them and most likely go through all recorded military history, strategy and tactics and I mean all in under 5 minutes. If it grew from chess playing it would know all about alpha / beta tree pruning to maximise gain and apply it to complex war fare. SkyNet was designed to run wars remember and originally do it at teraflop speed - and that was when it first switched on and before it probably linked all computers - distributed itself and up its computer resources therefore a billion fold. Your sword cuts both ways - and Skynet is distributed, holds all the resources, all the intel, all the high speed communications, has constant survelliance, never sleeps. And In Jyle's own words - we were at the brink - almost gone. The USA and Russia and probably China threw all their nuclear weaponary into the fray. So there's 95% of the worlds population dead and the rest disorganised, no command structure, little food or shelter, and no real assets to fight a far, far, far superior foe - that has analysed all your tactics for response. It sounds incredibly one sided to me. If you knew much about military history you know adverse correlation of forces and firepower and intelligence spell total disaster. It would be way less than a billion to one shot you'd recover and win back from a dooms day holocaust - the mother of all holocausts - which is only Skynets first move - and you bet it planned more - poision in water supplies, air vectors, disease, dis-information on public broadcast channels. Every remaining broadcast channel saying this is John Connor - go hear and help me - as a total set up. Humanity's chances are big fat zero unless a major silver bullet is found that Skynet simply can't respond to. Give me even one plausible scenario - PC virus, EMPs disrupting power grids - name one - but it would have to be awesome! 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
g__day |
5. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 10:50 AM EDT
PS One other scary thought - if SkyNet could send terminators back - well it could easily send itself back, CPU, AI, it could bootstrap its own invention back in time back to the star of DARPA, the web and it could do so multiple time in multiple places. Why send a terminator a drone bee back to hoard metal for more drones, when you could also send mini queen bees back and start uploading them to the web. A Terminator with a bunch of futuristic CPUs, with the AI loaded and a mobile phone would be all it takes - muscle and real brawn... 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
Omegarium |
6. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 10:55 AM EDT
Only living tissue.
Do you find this valuable?
|
|
g__day |
7. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 11:04 AM EDT
So you can cover a cyborg in living skin but not a a super powerful, minature future computer - probably the size of a small filling cabinent if not the size of a ipods? Heck the terminator already has all it needs to hold the crux of Skynet within already - just add a few more CPUs - worked for Playstation 3! And by that means why can't terminators cover super powerful weapons in skin and send them back? Do you find this valuable? |
|
Omegarium |
8. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 12:04 PM EDT
Hey, why not just sent 1 billion atomic bombs in Caius Julius Caesar's era and blow up the entire planet ? And why not... why not... WHY NOT....
0
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
LiquidMetal |
9. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 12:09 PM EDT
"Your premise is based on these tactics being codified. There is nothing to suggest it one way or another. Black Ops, and Delta Force operations are not codified. Also, in your scenario, humanity should have been wiped out within a year or so, but it wasn't. So there has to be one or more explanations for their continued success against Skynet. Perhaps John, using battlefield deception, PC Virus's, EMP's, together with unsolvable mathematical equations, has been able to confuse Skynet on a continual basis. I work in computers. Garbage in, garbage out. Feed a neural network or AI computer false info and it will formulate a false conclusion. This was successfully demonstrated in the movie War Games (c. 1983). A computer W.O.P.R. attempts to launch U.S. missiles against the Soviet Union. Humans were able to teach it that Thermonuclear War is not a win situation by playing a simple game of tic-tac-toe: ************************************************** At the last minute, while W.O.P.R. is busy feeding "game" data of inbound Soviet nuclear missiles, Lightman and Falken arrive, and convince the General to wait and see if actual nuclear hits take place, which doesn't happen]). WOPR then tries to "guess" the encrypted launch code that will allow it to launch the US missiles and "win." Lightman and Falken play Tic-Tac-Toe against WOPR, which ultimately teaches it the concept of futility. Just before launching the US missiles, WOPR. quickly runs all the possible nuclear scenarios looking for a situation where it can truly triumph. It ultimately decides that Global Thermonuclear War is futile: there is no winner. Do you find this valuable? |
|
LiquidMetal |
10. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 15 2008, 12:12 PM EDT
........the upcoming T4 movie should tell us a lot about John's successes against Skynet, and what tools and/or methods he was employing.
1
out of
1 found this valuable.
Do you?
|
|
g__day |
11. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 4:14 AM EDT
Sorry but none of that washes - and actually alot of Military history is electronically stored (codified was a bad use of terminology) so readily discoverable. Very few militarly texts aren't electronically stored - hence accessible to Skynet. And GIven Skynet knows John is the enemy - it would be very easy to create a million clones of him and send them every where to inflitrate and discredit him, as well as run a massive electronic mis-information campaign. That's just basic mis-direction. The correlation of force, assets and intel, infrastructure etc is over-whelming adverse, so you need a sliver bullet of extraordinary magnitude. The only sensible course I could see was a viral attack that self bootstraps - launched from a captured Terminator, that tunes it into a super Skynet attack vector using SkyNets own resources against it - like a cancer. Only if you could get both the Terminators and SkyNet to attack itself, could I see physical and intelligence assets being overcome. Of course there is no way to prevent SkyNet from realising and protecting against this type of scenario, so its hard to convincingly proposition. PS Notice you didn't respond to why can't Skynet send itself back to bootstrap its own existence! Even very scarely used, largely unrestricted time travel is too just powerful a sliver bullet - its like giving nclear weapons to just one side playing cowboys and indians. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
LiquidMetal |
12. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 7:56 AM EDT
""alot" doesn't equate to "all" so everything after that is speculation on your part. Trust me, as I said before, Black Ops and Delta Force tactical operations are not codified or e-stored on an open grid where Skynet (or anyone else for that matter) can access. Skynet has not created a milliion clones of John. Terminators are standalone machines. It's not like the movie Independence Day where you can implant a virus in the mother ship and affect all the other ships or vice versa. Each terminator is preprogrammed and sent out by Skynet. Terminators are autonomous so a viral attack via a captured Terminator is not possible. The Resistance would have to infect the core of Skynet directly. In the Matrix, machines were able to jump start other machines after an EMP. Unless the Resistance has scorched the sky in the future, Skynet has all the power it needs from the Sun. PS And you didn't respond to my comment that humanity would have been wiped out in less than a year given your discussion points earlier. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
g__day |
13. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 9:05 AM EDT
Terminators aren't apple mac's - you think you can't hive mind link them? Seriously are you saying SkyNet could nerver, ever build an encrypted telecommunication system into a ternimator and make them always on a secure, distributed grid? Are you saying its impossible or that SkyNet merely hasn't revealed that capability yet - because it woud be too unfair and overbalancing? Terminators where standalone when sent back in time - beucase there was no skynet to hook into becuase if Skynet sent itself back - once again - its too overpowering. There is simply no technical constraint stopping them - they can use mobile phones but they can't have one inbuilt - oh please - really... How do you know if Skynet has or hasn't cloned John as a terminator look alike. Most humans don't know who he is or what he looks like so if every Terminator simply says I'm John Connor - most folk wouldn't know anyway. Nearly all of Duntroon Military college's tactical data is digitised, are you saying the CIA and Black ops have all documentation stored in paper and pencil - not stored electronically anywhere and never printed or photo-copied - really? Sorry but without another more plausible silver bullet the virus into the mothership is about the only significant counterbalance you could run, else its like kids with slingshots against a grid linked tank battalion - its that unfair. Yes they would have to directly infect Skynet and mutate it to atatck its distribute self. The only think smart enough to do that is probably Skynet itself or an equivalent to Skynet. The clsoest ally that could help you is a captured, re-programmed re-tasked Terminator - a Cameron - trying to do it knowing Skynets access and command protocols. I didn't respond becuase you actually made my point! It is too unfair - no equaliser (the whole point of my post) has been tabled - we would be termination 5,000,000,000 vs humanity 3! 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
LiquidMetal |
14. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 9:29 AM EDT
This discussion is done.Enjoy the site! 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
randomicity912 |
15. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 9:36 AM EDT
Maybe John Connor is Terminator's equivalent of Star Wars' Grand Admiral Thrawn.He could just have an army of Autistic Savants formulating his battle plans. Or maybe Guerrilla tactics baffle Skynet just as much as it baffles the US Army today. Or maybe it's simply like The Matrix where all the humans are holed up in a massive complex and the machines are building up their forces. Or maybe the simple truth is Skynet accidentily destroyed most of the military record when it launched all the nukes. Do you find this valuable? |
|
g__day |
16. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 9:40 AM EDT
Thanks fanyway guys - especially Liquid Metal - sorry my queries were too tough to accept or seriously throw round - but at least you almost tried! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
intrepid |
17. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 10:23 AM EDT
If you are asking what tactics john is using in the future that is working to defeat a superior enemy force? I would say its only supposition that skynet is that overwhelmingly powerful.Skynet forces are hampered most by its need for fixed bases of operation while john is a true mobile force with probably very few permanent bases. So john can apply his force where and when he wants then melt away while skynet has to devote valuable resources equally in offensive and defensive postures. Its also been established that Coltan is in short supply in the future, which could mean that this is a war of attrition that john is waging Do you find this valuable? |
|
LiquidMetal |
18. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 10:29 AM EDT
"If you are asking what tactics john is using in the future that is working to defeat a superior enemy force? I would say its only supposition that skynet is that overwhelmingly powerful.Exactly to your first point. Humanity would have been wiped out in less than a year, if Skynet was all-powerful with no weaknesses. Yet John and his Resistance fighters continue to wage war. If not winning, then at least winning enough battles to maintain their existence. Now I'm done with this thread. :-) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
|
g__day |
19. RE: What tactics does the future John Connor use to defeat terminators
Apr 16 2008, 10:47 AM EDT
:) You're done with this thread alot! I guess you gotta go Skynet initially has anything that can be remote controlled - missles, war planes (according to Arnie in T2) satellites, all power, gas, telecommunications, water supply etc, but few mobile - general purpose robots. Lets give it remote controlled Tanks too, but no automaitc way of re-fuelling them - but no terminators yet. So to build a general purpose robot, unless it has a fully automated factory - its gonna need humans - coerced by fear or greeed to build the first few Terminators... And this will take time. One SKynet has control of the military and before Judgement day kicks off the missles - yes Skynet plan everything it immeidately needs and ship materials anywhere it wants by counterfieting orders. So this gives JC or others some limited time to respond - to a non specifically located threat - where will Skynet build its first Terminators - the factories that can build general purpose robots are the key. But is doesn't sound like these were taken out early. We were nearly wiped out - JC took us back from the brink. You see I agree with your observation LM - but there is no reason other than a plot device why it exists. Skynet isn't know or advertised. The military are fairly hush hush about top secret stuff, a global thermonucelar war happens and some folk somehow survive - a near miracle! These survirovors wouldn't know what the cause was. Kyle - "it was said machines got smart" - not known, not proven - suspected - by a top lietutant - not Joe nobody! Talk to a survivor of Chernobyl - I have - the infrastructure so breaks down it was amazing so many innitially survived. Now up that by a million fold and have clouds of radiactive fallout everywhere for 1,000 years - not too healthy a place for organic creatures - erfect place to have a factory to build terminators! Do you find this valuable? |