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General_Mazaki
General_Mazaki
The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Sep 22 2008, 12:39 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 22 2008, 12:39 AM EDT
I just watched episode three of season one. I believe that episode is the Turk, right?

Anyways, what John said to Sarah as Cameron was cleaning the weapons.... He spoke of the Singularity; when Skynet is finally able to make Terminators even smarter than itself. He said that when that happens, humanity was gonna have to kiss it's ass goodbye. As he says this, Cameron glances over at them, and then continues cleaning the MAC11 in her hand.

Here's my theory:

Skynet has already gone into the Singularity phase, and created the first, more-intelligent-than-itself terminator, AKA Cameron. Cameron is so smart, that Skynet becomes fearful of her, and believes she may aid the humans, due to her being so human. Skynet quickly decides to scrap Cameron, but she is recovered by the Resistance, and then reprogrammed, possibly by John. John soon falls head-over-heels for Cameron, and when he finds out that his past self needs protecting again, he decides to send Cameron, knowing she will be the best guardian, and that the past John will certainly fall for Cameron like the future John did. This concludes my theory.

Comments? Thoughts?
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General_Mazaki
General_Mazaki
1. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Sep 22 2008, 1:52 AM EDT | Post edited: Sep 22 2008, 1:52 AM EDT
"I just watched episode three of season one. I believe that episode is the Turk, right?

Anyways, what John said to Sarah as Cameron was cleaning the weapons.... He spoke of the Singularity; when Skynet is finally able to make Terminators even smarter than itself. He said that when that happens, humanity was gonna have to kiss it's ass goodbye. As he says this, Cameron glances over at them, and then continues cleaning the MAC11 in her hand.

Here's my theory:

Skynet has already gone into the Singularity phase, and created the first, more-intelligent-than-itself terminator, AKA Cameron. Cameron is so smart, that Skynet becomes fearful of her, and believes she may aid the humans, due to her being so human. Skynet quickly decides to scrap Cameron, but she is recovered by the Resistance, and then reprogrammed, possibly by John. John soon falls head-over-heels for Cameron, and when he finds out that his past self needs protecting again, he decides to send Cameron, knowing she will be the best guardian, and that the past John will certainly fall for Cameron like the future John did. This concludes my theory.

Comments? Thoughts?"
*watched it again, not just watched it*
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danhop84
danhop84
2. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 9:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 9:07 PM EDT
I pm Gen. Mazaki and then I thought I should post some of my thoughts on this subject:
"...Also I was thinking if it was possible for Skynet to take about 40 years to improve over its own design or it is a little bit exaggerated, since most futurologists agree that strong AI would reach singularity very fast. As I write this I just realized, Skynet is defective by design. Its design is not a general AI, but a war focused mind. Thats why it hasn't improved it's own design right at the beginning, it was completely focused on the war. By trying to defeat the humans, it develops the Cameron model based on the newly found principles intelligence, by studying human psychology and trying to make the model a human specialist. But it didn't analise those principles enough before putting them to practice. Of course Skynet was caught by surprise when the Cameron model showed diverse ingenuity, specially when reprogrammed to fight against Skynet. The Cameron model is non-obsessive about the war, obsessive about human endeavors, and that makes it completely prone to self-analyzing and then self-improving. Skynet mostly focus on immediate war research. Cameron does general research and so it's able to accelerate knowledge faster.
I am not convinced if it such intelligence as Skynet shows is possible. Being broad enough to design intelligent machines and yet too obsessive about subjects that it misses the larger picture. On Orion's Arm, the web world-building project, they base many plots on the assumption that higher intellects can be narrowly minded and fixated on dead ends. But I suspect that when more and more facts are analyzed and brought together the bigger picture pops out."
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danhop84
danhop84
3. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 9:08 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 9:08 PM EDT
**continuation
"I do believe strong AI would reach the conclusion that the Bible is trustworthy and ultimately the Lord is the true Creator and only hope for the creatures. But maybe there is some mind design that would corrupt the conclusions and even a much powerful intellect could be fooled by its own conclusions. That must be the situation of Satan, the Lord's enemy. Beside all his wisdom, it ignores the fact that the Lord cannot be defeated. It is mind boggling."
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darkman_2
darkman_2
4. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 9:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 9:43 PM EDT
"I just watched episode three of season one. I believe that episode is the Turk, right?

Anyways, what John said to Sarah as Cameron was cleaning the weapons.... He spoke of the Singularity; when Skynet is finally able to make Terminators even smarter than itself. He said that when that happens, humanity was gonna have to kiss it's ass goodbye. As he says this, Cameron glances over at them, and then continues cleaning the MAC11 in her hand.

Here's my theory:

Skynet has already gone into the Singularity phase, and created the first, more-intelligent-than-itself terminator, AKA Cameron. Cameron is so smart, that Skynet becomes fearful of her, and believes she may aid the humans, due to her being so human. Skynet quickly decides to scrap Cameron, but she is recovered by the Resistance, and then reprogrammed, possibly by John. John soon falls head-over-heels for Cameron, and when he finds out that his past self needs protecting again, he decides to send Cameron, knowing she will be the best guardian, and that the past John will certainly fall for Cameron like the future John did. This concludes my theory.

Comments? Thoughts?"

Good theory...Cameron uniqueness is apparent in your post.

Also, another popular theory is that John never re-programmed Cameron, and that Cameron became sentient on her own and is making her own decisions.

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darkman_2
darkman_2
5. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 9:46 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 9:46 PM EDT
"**continuation
"I do believe strong AI would reach the conclusion that the Bible is trustworthy and ultimately the Lord is the true Creator and only hope for the creatures. But maybe there is some mind design that would corrupt the conclusions and even a much powerful intellect could be fooled by its own conclusions. That must be the situation of Satan, the Lord's enemy. Beside all his wisdom, it ignores the fact that the Lord cannot be defeated. It is mind boggling.""

Are you saying that Skynet will come to believe that they are the hand of God that will deal destruction to the human race in the Book of Revelations?
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Accept
Accept
6. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:03 PM EDT
"
Good theory...Cameron uniqueness is apparent in your post.

Also, another popular theory is that John never re-programmed Cameron, and that Cameron became sentient on her own and is making her own decisions.

"
That is not a popular theory, its wishful thinking by some who want to throw all common sense out the window in the name of Jameron.
A robot infiltrates a resistance base, Alison is missing and presumed dead, they are not going to let a terminator work for them without programming. Its utterly ridiculous.
Jameron is not based on that silly theory.
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Timeloop
7. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:33 PM EDT
"
Good theory...Cameron uniqueness is apparent in your post.

Also, another popular theory is that John never re-programmed Cameron, and that Cameron became sentient on her own and is making her own decisions.

"
Yes the evidence that John never re-progranned Cameron is convincing. For one thing re-programmed Terminators would not kill humans as easily as Cameron did to defend JC. The AFP episode makes little sense if Cameron is concocting a tall story to get information from Allison. First Allison gave out all kinds of personal information rather easily and thus could have been tortured to extract the same information Cameron deduced. Also there were other sources for the bracelet information and why would Allison give out the more valuable information which was location of the path. The behavior of Allison is not that of a person who thinks they are being lied to but rather of one that suspects they are being told the truth but does not like it. There was likely already mixed feelings in the camp about JC using reprogrammed terminators and stepping up to having non re-programmed ones in the camp is not something metal haters would ever trust.
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termi-ninja-tor
termi-ninja-tor
8. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:42 PM EDT
"That is not a popular theory, its wishful thinking by some who want to throw all common sense out the window in the name of Jameron.
A robot infiltrates a resistance base, Alison is missing and presumed dead, they are not going to let a terminator work for them without programming. Its utterly ridiculous.
Jameron is not based on that silly theory."
I have to agree with Accept on this.

Also, when John asks Cameron what she had done to Derek to make him dislike her so much, she replied that she did not remember because her memories were scrubbed in her reprogramming. She said that losing the memories helps the reprogramming take better.

Accordingly, it appears that Cam was in fact reprogrammed, unless we postulate that she was lying to John to conceal something.
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kaotic
9. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:47 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:47 PM EDT
"That is not a popular theory, its wishful thinking by some who want to throw all common sense out the window in the name of Jameron.
A robot infiltrates a resistance base, Alison is missing and presumed dead, they are not going to let a terminator work for them without programming. Its utterly ridiculous.
Jameron is not based on that silly theory."
Yes I agree with you Accept... It's ridiculous. Cameron was a terminator and she wouldn't just stop being a terminator she had to be reprogrammed.
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SurfingEagle
SurfingEagle
10. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:50 PM EDT
Since Skynet is an intelligent machine, I always assumed that it could just continually upgrade itself with new technology. Thus, expanding its complexity and sophistication along with its creations so that none of the machines it created would be intentionally smarter. Do you find this valuable?    

kaotic
11. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:51 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:51 PM EDT
"I have to agree with Accept on this.

Also, when John asks Cameron what she had done to Derek to make him dislike her so much, she replied that she did not remember because her memories were scrubbed in her reprogramming. She said that losing the memories helps the reprogramming take better.

Accordingly, it appears that Cam was in fact reprogrammed, unless we postulate that she was lying to John to conceal something."
Yeah anyone that thinks she wasn't reprogrammed is just being dumb- Terminator is a terminator no matter how you dress them up. We know she lies, but why the hell would she lie about her memory, and being reprogrammed. What benefits does that give her?
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wilson_low
wilson_low
12. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:54 PM EDT
Skynet's Singularity isn't Cameron... it's the T-1000, such as one Catherine Weaver. Here's why...

- the T-1000 CW was so smart she came back through time to build another AI to fight Skynet.
- Future John was so convinced this was the way to finally defeat Skynet that he was willing to go to great risks to seek an alliance with a future T-1000 (who may or may not have been CW).
- CW in the present-day was so resourceful that she infiltrated Zeiracorp, enlisted the help of Murch, Ellison, Dr. Sherman, and even Savannah, and salvaged a shot-up Cromartie to create her AI, John Henry.
- Hell, she even co-erced sweet Cambot to 'join us'.
- She's so bad-ass she stabbed a T-888 and electrocuted him using herself as a conductor (and no, she herself didn't shutdown either)
- Finally, you try re-programming a T-1000... there's no chip to extract and mess about with as far as i can tell! That's the ultimate anti-tamper Terminator that Skynet came up with.

When CW happens, that's when Skynet can pretty much kiss it's own ass goodbye.
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Accept
Accept
13. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:54 PM EDT
"Yes the evidence that John never re-progranned Cameron is convincing. For one thing re-programmed Terminators would not kill humans as easily as Cameron did to defend JC. The AFP episode makes little sense if Cameron is concocting a tall story to get information from Allison. First Allison gave out all kinds of personal information rather easily and thus could have been tortured to extract the same information Cameron deduced. Also there were other sources for the bracelet information and why would Allison give out the more valuable information which was location of the path. The behavior of Allison is not that of a person who thinks they are being lied to but rather of one that suspects they are being told the truth but does not like it. There was likely already mixed feelings in the camp about JC using reprogrammed terminators and stepping up to having non re-programmed ones in the camp is not something metal haters would ever trust. "
Its post like this that make me question your knowledge of Terminator and this show. A reprogrammed terminator is a central figure in T2 and T3. Josh Friedman had told us JC reprogrammed her, countless times. It a known accepted fact , simple and basic as the show is broadcast in color. You make no sense and contradict yourself saying you have proof she acts like a "non reprogrammed" machine.
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kaotic
14. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:55 PM EDT
"Skynet's Singularity isn't Cameron... it's the T-1000, such as one Catherine Weaver. Here's why...

- the T-1000 CW was so smart she came back through time to build another AI to fight Skynet, John Henry.
- Future John was so convinced this was the way to finally defeat Skynet that he was willing to go to great risks to seek an alliance with a future T-1000 (who may or may not have been CW).
- CW in the present-day was so resourceful that she infiltrated Zeiracorp, enlisted the help of Murch, Ellison, Dr. Sherman, and even Savannah, and salvaged a shot-up Cromartie to create her AI, John Henry.
- Hell, she even co-erced sweet Cambot to 'join us'.
- She's so bad-ass she stabbed a T-888 and electrocuted him using herself as a conductor (and no, she herself didn't shutdown either)
- Finally, you try re-programming a T-1000... there's no chip to extract and mess about with as far as i can tell! That's the ultimate anti-tamper Terminator that Skynet came up with.

When CW happens, that's when Skynet can pretty much kiss it's own ass goodbye."
I do agree with that- The T1000 and T1001 can't be controlled, and are able to make other AI's like JH so yeah I do have to agree.
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Timeloop
15. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:57 PM EDT
"Yes I agree with you Accept... It's ridiculous. Cameron was a terminator and she wouldn't just stop being a terminator she had to be reprogrammed. "
CW was not reprogrammed and does not serve Skynet. However like Cameron she eliminated humans rather easily in pursuit of her agenda. Reprogramming was the required cover story for Cameron. It is unclear whether Derek remembers Cameron in the same timeline. Also she evidently did not lose memories related to killing Allison so why weren't those scrubbed ?
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kaotic
16. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 10:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 10:58 PM EDT
"Its post like this that make me question your knowledge of Terminator and this show. A reprogrammed terminator is a central figure in T2 and T3. Josh Friedman had told us JC reprogrammed her, countless times. It a known accepted fact , simple and basic as the show is broadcast in color. You make no sense and contradict yourself saying you have proof she acts like a "non reprogrammed" machine.
"
Thanks accept, I was going to reply but you beat me to it. :)
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kaotic
17. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 11:02 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 11:13 PM EDT
"CW was not reprogrammed and does not serve Skynet. However like Cameron she eliminated humans rather easily in pursuit of her agenda. Reprogramming was the required cover story for Cameron. It is unclear whether Derek remembers Cameron in the same timeline. Also she evidently did not lose memories related to killing Allison so why weren't those scrubbed ? "
Cover story for what? I don't see what Cameron would've gained by lying about her memories, and about being reprogrammed. The only thing I can think is that maybe when they're scrubbed that it's kind of like a hard drive (the chip) data is still there just hidden.

What I mean by that is when you format a hard drive there's still data that can be recovered. I don't know how the memories of Alison would've been recovered tho (not a cyborg).

edit explain myself a little bit.
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Timeloop
18. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 11:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 11:06 PM EDT
"Thanks accept, I was going to reply but you beat me to it. :)"
Notty's argument is feeble. SCC is not T2 or T3. It has CW and Cameron as unique terminators which evolve over time. In Cameron's case there may have been a rather rapid initial evoluton due to the emotional subsystem she has
among other things. Or there may have been contact with CW ? The simpleton back story Notty has bought into did not require a complex episode like AFP.
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Timeloop
19. RE: The Singularity of Skynet---The Day They Make Smarter Ones
Jun 25 2009, 11:11 PM EDT | Post edited: Jun 25 2009, 11:11 PM EDT
"Cover story for what? I don't see what Cameron would've gained by lying about her memories, and about being reprogrammed. The only thing I can think is that maybe when they're scrubbed that it's kind of like a hard drive (the chip) data is still there just hidden."
You need more than data in an archive for Cameron to think she is Allson. You need an active neural network driving Cameron's behavior which contains some of what is in Allisons mind. She was told to do so by future John. Obviously Sarah would trust her even less if she thought she was never re-programed .
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