Location: Episode 9 - Complications

Discussion: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.Reported This is a featured thread

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20. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 5:30 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 5:30 PM EST
Why is she toying with John's emotions..... I thought she said terminators are not programmed to be cruel.......... Do you find this valuable?    
CadreOfCows
CadreOfCows
21. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 5:34 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 5:34 PM EST
"Why is she toying with John's emotions..... I thought she said terminators are not programmed to be cruel.........."
Her mission is to seduce John, get him to up sticks and leave the city with her - then live 'off the grid' with him, as his wife in a little shack in the middle of nowhere until the bombs fall.
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T-1976
T-1976
22. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 5:59 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 5:59 PM EST
Its probably only a matter of time before Cameron starts pouting her lips, raising her eyebrows and gives that "come hither to me" look to John before he gets the hint.......and if, even after that he STILL doesnt get the message..........

THEN YOU GOT SOME MAJOR ISSUES, DUDE!

But on a more serious note......I think John is still hung up on the fact that Cameron is a machine...a machine that is seemingly coming on to him, that is trying to seemingly (seemingly because we arent completely sure yet) seduce him....and he cant deal with it....

Its like your cell phone suddenly calling out to you......."Come kiss me baby, im a nice Motorola" You'd be freaked

OR like in those shows where this INSANELY beautiful woman (and she is!) is coming on to you.........but shes dangerous, and you know that, but yet...you cant help yourself and you end up making love to her but it ends up being your downfall.

I think those are the feelings he's wrestling with.
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AgentCook
AgentCook
23. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:07 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:07 PM EST
"I think John is much more complicated than that. I think he's afraid of his feelings for her after she used his feelings against him in the premier but at the same time a part of him wants to believe she's different. Hence there is always duality in his reactions to her. He consciously attempts to keep his distance but her presents still has an effect on him"
I agree with HK, A big part of his attitude towards Cameron was of the fact that she called out his feelings, but also because she said he couldnt be trusted, remember in AMFTP when he said "I dont have to answer to anyone" "not even you".. I still think he is kinda hurt by all that, but for the love of god, get over it already.
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jrockblast
jrockblast
24. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:15 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:15 PM EST
Woman can be the devil there was a thread about what songs descirbed them. Mine is downfall by matchbox 20 in a way Jhon is Cameron's savior and vise versa but she is his biggest weakness , and that makes her his downfall. I dont like the way she has been trying to use the robotic pootang if u will to get Jhon to do what she wants if Jhon ever gives in he would be a total emotional whipped puppy and thats not what the future leader of mankind should be be doing. Do you find this valuable?    
T-1976
T-1976
25. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:22 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:22 PM EST
Maybe Cameron is doing all this (coming on to him) to make John stand on his own.........kinda like reverse psychology ?

Anyway, just a thought
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KrelleK
26. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:22 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:22 PM EST
"I notice that too about Cameron and Derek. She was acting like a brat in this episode. I thought it was pretty funny how she made him call her back. Cameron is such a hoot to watch. I only just watch the show because of her and Sarah. They are just funny together."
Yeah i was sitting and thinking what the heck, i know you do not like each other, but there is no reason to hang up on him, until i remembered he forgot the code.
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Xynoxx
27. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 6:25 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:25 PM EST
"I think slowly and slowly, John will realize that Cameron is the most trustworthy, and that the humans are the ones that are unreliable. That would explain why Cameron had access to the retinal scanner in the future, and why she was within future John's inner circle. That explains why John uses so many reprogrammed Terminators, much to the chagrin of the human members of the resistance."

The most untrustworthy of beings are indeed humans; and Future John already has reason to know it. Look at Derek. Look at Jesse - would YOU trust her?

Certainly, Cameron is dangerous and that, is part of he rallure.. She may be still glitchy; but she's the best thing John has. He needs her to be dangerous. She could easily have killed him after the explosion. That was the worst moment for him. But he trusted her enough to put the gun in her hand. I'm srill trying to work out what happened to that ballsy John. This was the watershed; the point at which he should have developed further, instead of regressing into teenaged ninny mode.

His desperate efforts to avoid what all his senses are telling him, are almost comical. Cameron is his muse, his guide, his protector, and---dare one say-..his once and future lover. Whether he recpgnises it now or not, she is an integral part of his destiny; ser-up distractions like Riley notwithstanding..
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cameron202791
cameron202791
28. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 6:30 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:30 PM EST
""I think slowly and slowly, John will realize that Cameron is the most trustworthy, and that the humans are the ones that are unreliable. That would explain why Cameron had access to the retinal scanner in the future, and why she was within future John's inner circle. That explains why John uses so many reprogrammed Terminators, much to the chagrin of the human members of the resistance."

The most untrustworthy of beings are indeed humans; and Future John already has reason to know it. Look at Derek. Look at Jesse - would YOU trust her?

Certainly, Cameron is dangerous and that, is part of he rallure.. She may be still glitchy; but she's the best thing John has. He needs her to be dangerous. She could easily have killed him after the explosion. That was the worst moment for him. But he trusted her enough to put the gun in her hand. I'm srill trying to work out what happened to that ballsy John. This was the watershed; the point at which he should have developed further, instead of regressing into teenaged ninny mode.

His desperate efforts to avoid what all his senses are telling him, are almost comical. Cameron is his muse, his guide, his protector, and---dare one say-..his once and future lover. Whether he recpgnises it now or not, she is an integral part of his destiny; ser-up distractions like Riley notwithstanding.."
exactly john should have listened to cameron ellison was lying, yet again another fuck up by john excuse my language
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AgentCook
AgentCook
29. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:31 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:31 PM EST
"Yeah i was sitting and thinking what the heck, i know you do not like each other, but there is no reason to hang up on him, until i remembered he forgot the code."
I was thinking the same exact thing,
Derek. its me Derek
Cameron. is it? (click)
Derek. ...........
calls back with code this time
Derek. I need to talk to you.
Cameron. about what.

So yeah It was the code thing, but was still funny when he said it was Derek and she said Is it? (click) cracked me up.
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jarhead_h
jarhead_h
30. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't f
Nov 18 2008, 6:36 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:36 PM EST
"I think Cameron is more developed than she's letting on. She remains coldly Terminator-like with Sarah, she's drip-feeding John but trying to avoid freaking him out, but she is at her most "human" with Derek, with whom she doesn't even bother trying to maintain a pretense.

There was of course the "I can't let anything happen to him" at the police station, she was distracted and let her guard down and may not even have realised she said it out loud, but earlier at Derek's arms cache she briefly acts and sounds completely human: "You didn't have a room at the last house". I don't think that is a slip on the part of an actor of Summer's calibre and discipline."
This is all true.

"It didn't seem like much of a threat."

"So talk."

Informal. That would be the best way to describe her choice of words, and the number of them. Not what would be expected of a Terminator.

And the conversation about "feeling" was very revealing about how John has reclassified her - there's distance there that wasn't before. He has reduced her in his mind to that of a machine again, not some sort of hybrid with potential to be more than that. The damage to her chip is going to be a critical subplot for the back nine that might turn into the main plot in a real hurry. Just because TSCC has gotten a full season pickup is no guaranty for a third season pickup, especially with it's new home on Fridays.

Tim Minear has stated that when he does a show for Fox, he always designs the first arc for thirteen episodes. The way he figures it, odds are it won't get any more than that, so if the story isn't set for a satisfactory conclusion by ep 12 it's too late. I thin that something similar is going on here, Friedman knows that he has to pull out all of the stops because this is very possibly it.

At least I hope that's how he's thinking, because Fox Fridays means that he's going to need to pull off one hell of a hail-mary.
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SageManic
SageManic
31. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:43 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:43 PM EST
"She did seem very different in that scene, not just what she said, but how she said it. The tone of her voice was less like her normal robot tone and sounded more human than ever before (except for the pilot)."
Cameron acted much more like a human teenaged girl in that scene. The way she changed the radio station. The way she talked on the phone. The tone of her voice when she said "Hello" when answering Derek's call.
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AgentCook
AgentCook
32. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 18 2008, 6:51 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 18 2008, 6:51 PM EST
"Cameron acted much more like a human teenaged girl in that scene. The way she changed the radio station. The way she talked on the phone. The tone of her voice when she said "Hello" when answering Derek's call."
I beleive we will see her acting more human as more ep's go on.
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Jim23
33. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 11:01 AM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 11:01 AM EST
That may not be exactly what she meant by that line, but he will experience sensations evenually. I garuntee it. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
jarhead_h
jarhead_h
34. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 12:31 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 12:31 PM EST
"I beleive we will see her acting more human as more ep's go on."
Remember, the show just scored nine more episode, which is what we are currently on as of right now, awaiting the tenth. A LOT can change in nine hours.
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BenyDJet
BenyDJet
35. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 1:38 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 1:38 PM EST
eh I'm still puzzled by this line.

I want to know to what extent can she feel and have sensation.
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Will217
Will217
36. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 1:57 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 1:57 PM EST
"eh I'm still puzzled by this line.

I want to know to what extent can she feel and have sensation. "
She can physically feel as we feel: all it is is nerve endings (on our skin for example) sending messages to our brains which we then interpret (pain, pleasure, heat, cold, etc.) What Cameron doesn't possess is the reflex reactions we do. For instance, when we touch something hot, we recoil because we register pain. She doesn't suffer the pain, but she interprets it as "not good" because of the damage it can incur and that's why she would be inclined to recoil. Think back to when we're kids and physical pain is sufficient to elicit tears; we'd fall, skin a knee and cry because of the pain. As we get older, pain no longer makes us cry (or at least it takes a higher degree to do so.) Cameron has the ability to cry, but only as a mechanism she'd employ to pass for human, not as a reflex to physical or emotional stimuli like us.

Keep in mind, this is all I think we CAN know with the information given to us so far by the writers. As the show develops, things will probably change. The beauty is how the writers will bridge the gap between her being able to physically feel and whether or not she will eventually be able to emotionally feel.

When Cameron says "I can't let anything happen to him" we want to believe it's her devotion to him that's the cause but with what we know so far, it's just her fear of failing in her mission to protect John that's responsible. Maybe there's more. Maybe she has evolved further than she lets on and only Future John can attest to that. We can theorize all day, but I find it best to stick to what we know so far when interpreting things from the show. Interpreting and speculating are two different things.
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ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
37. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 2:06 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 2:06 PM EST
"She can physically feel as we feel: all it is is nerve endings (on our skin for example) sending messages to our brains which we then interpret (pain, pleasure, heat, cold, etc.) What Cameron doesn't possess is the reflex reactions we do. For instance, when we touch something hot, we recoil because we register pain. She doesn't suffer the pain, but she interprets it as "not good" because of the damage it can incur and that's why she would be inclined to recoil. Think back to when we're kids and physical pain is sufficient to elicit tears; we'd fall, skin a knee and cry because of the pain. As we get older, pain no longer makes us cry (or at least it takes a higher degree to do so.) Cameron has the ability to cry, but only as a mechanism she'd employ to pass for human, not as a reflex to physical or emotional stimuli like us.

Keep in mind, this is all I think we CAN know with the information given to us so far by the writers. As the show develops, things will probably change. The beauty is how the writers will bridge the gap between her being able to physically feel and whether or not she will eventually be able to emotionally feel.

When Cameron says "I can't let anything happen to him" we want to believe it's her devotion to him that's the cause but with what we know so far, it's just her fear of failing in her mission to protect John that's responsible. Maybe there's more. Maybe she has evolved further than she lets on and only Future John can attest to that. We can theorize all day, but I find it best to stick to what we know so far when interpreting things from the show. Interpreting and speculating are two different things."
This is really nothing new. In T2, John asks Arnold "does it hurt when you get shot?" His response is, "I sense my injuries. The data could be called pain."
Basically what you just described. They can "feel" thing, as in, they resieve signals to their "brain" the same way we do. The difference is what their "brains" do with that information.
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Will217
Will217
38. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 2:41 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 2:41 PM EST
I agree it isn't new, but it was ASKED. Ergo the explanation. Do you find this valuable?    

SamStaurophobia
40. RE: I have sensation. I feel. I wouldn't be worth much if I couldn't feel.
Nov 19 2008, 5:42 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 19 2008, 5:42 PM EST
I think future John is involved in some way with Cameron... But if he is, why wouldn't he keep her there, with him? I KNOW present John is in love with her. It's pretty clear, though I think Riley may just be a way for him to try to distance himself from that. Do you find this valuable?    
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