Location: Episode 10 | Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point

Discussion: Cameron Running the Resistance

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jarhead_h	40. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 25 2008, 5:13 PM EST "We've assumed that Derek or John will be the instrumental player in uncovering this. But what happens if Cameron discovers this conspiracy first? Terminators tend to have one-track minds when it comes to dealing with "threats," so I can't imagine a pleasant chat over tea is going to be too high on her agenda." Cameron will discover it first. She won't be able to move on the intel until she can convince Dereck and John. And basically the only way to do that will be to have Riley expose the whole thing to Dereck, and then Dereck will have to take care of Jesse. And if we're lucky Riley will end up being a an unstable terminator so that Cameron can kill her without looking bad. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Veran	41. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 25 2008, 5:13 PM EST "We've assumed that Derek or John will be the instrumental player in uncovering this. But what happens if Cameron discovers this conspiracy first? Terminators tend to have one-track minds when it comes to dealing with "threats," so I can't imagine a pleasant chat over tea is going to be too high on her agenda." Only if you replace the crumpets with 9mms and the sugar tongs with combat knives. ;) When Jesse escaped to 2007, John and Cameron were still together in the future. i.e Cameron hadn't been sent back yet. Just pointing out a fact here. Her hatred of Cameron is probably personal. Jesse keeps rambling about the deaths of "good" soldiers, so I'm thinking that she's lost A LOT of friends and is looking to blame John for it. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MichalNancyKarni	42. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 26 2008, 3:11 AM EST "They've pushed back judgement day. I think it's possible they could prevent it altogether because their actions are having an effect. But there are two problems. 1) The terminators and factions of the resistance are also trying to change the future. When you have different groups with different aims, it's going to take a lot more effort to push the future into a given direction. 2) I think if John wants to prevent Judgement Day, he's not taking the right approach. They could stop the Turk from becoming sentient by destroying it, but machines coming sentient will happen eventually. They can keep hunting down computers and destroying them but when would it end? When John and his group are killed? Also, the terminators appear to becoming sentient on their own, so if Cameron sticks around, she would become the enemy in time. I think their goal instead should be to teach Skynet not to fear humans. SkyNet's fear of humans killing it is what triggered it to wage war against them. I think Ellison teaching the Turk the value of human life and basic morality is a step in the right direction. It would be ironic if Ellison is the one who stops Judgement Day instead of John. But then maybe John and everyone else could live a normal life without fear of war and that's what everyone wants, isn't it?" i like this idea. that is the core of the problem. The AI needs to learn that all forms of life have the right to live. It's not a binary idea, though. Perhaps Ellison is the one to cancel Judgment Day by giving the AI morals I agree that trying to destroy the technology is futile in the sense that it's being worked on in so many different places by so many different people. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
chojin999	43. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 26 2008, 6:19 AM EST "i like this idea. that is the core of the problem. The AI needs to learn that all forms of life have the right to live. It's not a binary idea, though. Perhaps Ellison is the one to cancel Judgment Day by giving the AI morals I agree that trying to destroy the technology is futile in the sense that it's being worked on in so many different places by so many different people. " No, when the AI will have got morals then Skynet will be born.. thru those morals it will decide on it's free will to wipe out humans and start a war. That's the whole point. Post reply 0 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
markingswall	44. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 26 2008, 7:21 AM EST " When Jesse escaped to 2007, John and Cameron were still together in the future. i.e Cameron hadn't been sent back yet. Just pointing out a fact here. Her hatred of Cameron is probably personal. Jesse keeps rambling about the deaths of "good" soldiers, so I'm thinking that she's lost A LOT of friends and is looking to blame John for it." I disagree. Bag and Cameron come back from the future. They change it. This Jesse is from the altered future. A future in which both John and Cameron survive Judgement Day and lead the resistance. Like Jesse said, imagine John being together with Cameron for the next 20 years. John doesn't have to send Cameron back because she's already in that timeline because of the alternate future, the future we saw in season 1. So in one future Cameron will be together with John. In the other future there are 2 Cameron's. One who's torturing people in a basement (presumably) and the other who is working together with the resistance and who will be sent back to the past to save John from Cromartie. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
planetxan	45. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 26 2008, 8:50 AM EST "I disagree. Bag and Cameron come back from the future. They change it. This Jesse is from the altered future. A future in which both John and Cameron survive Judgement Day and lead the resistance. Like Jesse said, imagine John being together with Cameron for the next 20 years. John doesn't have to send Cameron back because she's already in that timeline because of the alternate future, the future we saw in season 1. So in one future Cameron will be together with John. In the other future there are 2 Cameron's. One who's torturing people in a basement (presumably) and the other who is working together with the resistance and who will be sent back to the past to save John from Cromartie." Derek's and Jessie's respective futures are so far only different in regards to he interrogation that Derek doesn't remember. Everything else Jessie describes sounds exactly like the world we see in Derek's flashbacks - John doesn't talk to anyone except Cameron ('Connor doesn't have friends') and no one sees him. Derek left earlier than Jessie did. She talks about what happened after he left. Her story follows his. The altered time lines don't seem to have much consequence with Jessie's relation to Cameron or how John and Cameron interact in the future. Cameron seems to have been sent back later, too, maybe after Jessie. Although, I don't know why Jessie would go back if Cameron hadn't gone back before. She wouldn't know Cameron existed in the past unless John told her, which seems unlikely. It seesm a lot of people have gone back inbetween when Derek did and when Cameron did. I believe Cameron going back must have created a new timeline. They have not spent 20 years together. Jessie clearly says to Derek, what if they spend the next 20 years together, suggesting that that hasn't happened. There aren't 2 Camerons in the timelines that Derek or Jessie came from. It all makes me wonder if something happened to John in the future. That's why no one sees him and if he later died, maybe that's why Cameron went back and why she took over 70 days to find him. And maybe that's why she seems overly protective of him now, some kind of guilt from letting him die in the future. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
markingswall	46. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 26 2008, 11:11 AM EST I disagree but we will find out the truth in the upcoming weeks...hopefully. These discussions here are really in a good manner. People exchanging ideas without namecalling and such. So civilized compared to other forums where people want to rip out your guts for not agreeing with them. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
KrelleK	47. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 6:36 AM EST "did any of you see the movie Deja Vu? No this isn't off topic. the ATF agent goes back in time with the knowledge to change certain out comes. But in the middle of it he realised that every thing was turning out the same anyway. Watch this movie. it helps to understand what is going on in this time/future and past/ chicken and egg thinking. When John sends Cameron back to help him in the past, he's sending back his closest ally and advisor. Jesse comes back knowing that he's going to do this?? Or does she discover it when she arrives? She says that John is isolating himself with Cameron--so he hasn't sent her back yet... Maybe the fact that Jesse and Riley are in the past looking to a way to influence John has already changed the future?? How can they know that they are successful either way? The message on the wall is when in relation to the arrival of Jesse/Riley?? After they are there, right? " Just a thought, the Resistance guy that traveled through time, in AFTP along with bullet on its way through him, could it be that he was shot by Jesse, in the nanosecond before he traveled back, and then she traveled back too, to a different place. perhaps he witnessed the travel of Riley Post reply Do you find this valuable?
KrelleK	48. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 8:38 AM EST "Only if you replace the crumpets with 9mms and the sugar tongs with combat knives. ;) When Jesse escaped to 2007, John and Cameron were still together in the future. i.e Cameron hadn't been sent back yet. Just pointing out a fact here. Her hatred of Cameron is probably personal. Jesse keeps rambling about the deaths of "good" soldiers, so I'm thinking that she's lost A LOT of friends and is looking to blame John for it." actually I think they sent back the Cameron that they had captured while, the one to be our Cammygirl, while the other, the one that had lived alongside with the connors since 1999-2007, to 2027, as Jesse said, think of a John that has had 20 years along with cammy, and the feelings that perhaps has evolved, both in her, but also between them, and i guess she has perhaps held a low profile as long as her younger self was at the base. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
KrelleK	49. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 8:42 AM EST "I disagree. Bag and Cameron come back from the future. They change it. This Jesse is from the altered future. A future in which both John and Cameron survive Judgement Day and lead the resistance. Like Jesse said, imagine John being together with Cameron for the next 20 years. John doesn't have to send Cameron back because she's already in that timeline because of the alternate future, the future we saw in season 1. So in one future Cameron will be together with John. In the other future there are 2 Cameron's. One who's torturing people in a basement (presumably) and the other who is working together with the resistance and who will be sent back to the past to save John from Cromartie." actually i think, the one we think has tortured people in the basement, is just the one to be Cammy, before she is taken by the resistance, before she is either reprogrammed, or before she she decides to fight with the resistance. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Will217	50. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 9:50 AM EST "I disagree. Bag and Cameron come back from the future. They change it. This Jesse is from the altered future. A future in which both John and Cameron survive Judgement Day and lead the resistance. Like Jesse said, imagine John being together with Cameron for the next 20 years. John doesn't have to send Cameron back because she's already in that timeline because of the alternate future, the future we saw in season 1. So in one future Cameron will be together with John. In the other future there are 2 Cameron's. One who's torturing people in a basement (presumably) and the other who is working together with the resistance and who will be sent back to the past to save John from Cromartie." My $.02: Derek and Cameron came from the same future. For the purpose of this post, let's call that future "A." I reach this conclusion because neither of them knew Fischer - in their future, he wasn't significant. Jessie came from an alternate future - future "B", though not one where Cameron had already been with John for 20 years just one where John had all but secluded himself from other humans and instead chose Cameron - a lot of us thought that was weird. Listen to Jessie's monologue. She asks him to imagine what it'll be like IF Cameron spends the next 20 years with him. In both futures, Cameron has just been captured, reprogrammed and sent back to the past. In neither has she ALREADY spent 20 years with him. Cameron traveling back to present day is causing the creation of a future "C" where she fears that John spending 20 years with Cameron will screw him up. The thing is, Jessie seems to incorrectly believe that when Cameron was sent back, it would alter future "B." That's the big error that SkyNet and the Resistance make - changing the past doesn't alter the future, it creates a variant one. Does anyone believe that when Derek shot Andy Goode, Billy Wisher back in future "A" ceased to exist? Or if Arnie had killed Sarah in T1, that the John who sent back Kyle would've just disappeared? Of course not, that's impossible per the Law of Conservation of Matter. What it does is create a splintered time-line from that point. If her prime concern is to divert Cameron's influence on John, she'd have been better off staying in future "B" since Cameron had already left. Future "C" would have no bearing on it. I know it's complicated. I hope my reasoning can be followed. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
djegators	51. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 9:57 AM EST Honestly, I feel this alternate timeline is over-complicating the story, and it cheapens the writing, if this is actually what the writers intend, as nothing is impossible, all you have to do is use the time machine. Yes, the future "changes", or more accurately, it has not happened yet. Its not that Derek didn't know Fisher, he didn't remember. And he has always been important, as he is John's Uncle, but for security reasons, that fact has been kept hidden. I also feel that Jesse's complaint of Cameron is based on what she is currently observing adn is assuming will happen, rather than knowledge from the future. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Will217	52. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 10:31 AM EST "Honestly, I feel this alternate timeline is over-complicating the story, and it cheapens the writing, if this is actually what the writers intend, as nothing is impossible, all you have to do is use the time machine. Yes, the future "changes", or more accurately, it has not happened yet. Its not that Derek didn't know Fisher, he didn't remember. And he has always been important, as he is John's Uncle, but for security reasons, that fact has been kept hidden. I also feel that Jesse's complaint of Cameron is based on what she is currently observing adn is assuming will happen, rather than knowledge from the future." Over-complicating the story indeed! But that's the downside of including time-travel in a story. I couldn't agree with you more on that point. I can't believe Derek would simply forget Fischer though. Or that Cameron would be unaware of who he is. It's too easy to say she was lying. I guess it was her second look at the picture when Derek asks if she's sure (who is this dude?) It is possible though, I admit. I just doubt it. THAT would over-complicate the show and force the writers to have to explain it. Assuming that the writers have a plan, Derek's theory of multiple time-lines was put in for a reason. A rule of screenwriting is to omit anything the audience can figure out for themselves. Derek's theory is either a red herring, or a clue. I'm inclined to believe it's the latter. I'm in total, absolute agreement with the last sentence in your post. Jessie fears what John will turn into after 20 years of Cameron influencing him based on her observed behavior of him in her future and she's being proactive. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
djegators	53. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 10:43 AM EST Maybe another shrink will be brought into the story, so Derek can have his memories that were repressed due to post traumatic syndrome restored :p There is a lot we do not know about Jesse and her plans, the Fisher deal, Riley, her spying on the Connors, lying to Derek....but somehow it is related, and is a danger to John...I feel sure of that much! Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HK-50	54. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 11:13 AM EST I no longer think its Cameron running the future resistance. Its Sarah. She no longer dies as she would have in the original timeline and is still by his side post JD. The whole episode is setup to show the connection between Sarah making a major mistake in the present and her mistakes in the future. Plus, they have Derek also reacting negatively to Sarah's obsession over the three dots on a couple of occasions. The scene between he and John regarding the three dots is, in retrospect, a flashing neon sign that its actually Sarah, not Cameron. He asks if John is still seeing clearly, because he needs to know that someone is. Clearly, he is beginning to doubt Sarah's judgement. He later gets very annoyed with Sarah for 'getting played' over the chip and its at this point, he goes back to Jesse and sides with her, seemingly convinced that Sarah is a liability. I think they just wanted everyone to think it was Cameron so they could set up a shocking plot twist, but almost all of the clues actually point at Sarah instead. The only one that doesn't is the 'him, her, it, metal' line from Jesse when listing the people Derek is living with, but even this is a clue. She refers to Cameron as 'it', yet she refers to her target as 'she' and 'her'. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
djegators	55. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 11:26 AM EST "I no longer think its Cameron running the future resistance. Its Sarah. She no longer dies as she would have in the original timeline and is still by his side post JD. The whole episode is setup to show the connection between Sarah making a major mistake in the present and her mistakes in the future. Plus, they have Derek also reacting negatively to Sarah's obsession over the three dots on a couple of occasions. The scene between he and John regarding the three dots is, in retrospect, a flashing neon sign that its actually Sarah, not Cameron. He asks if John is still seeing clearly, because he needs to know that someone is. Clearly, he is beginning to doubt Sarah's judgement. He later gets very annoyed with Sarah for 'getting played' over the chip and its at this point, he goes back to Jesse and sides with her, seemingly convinced that Sarah is a liability. I think they just wanted everyone to think it was Cameron so they could set up a shocking plot twist, but almost all of the clues actually point at Sarah instead. The only one that doesn't is the 'him, her, it, metal' line from Jesse when listing the people Derek is living with, but even this is a clue. She refers to Cameron as 'it', yet she refers to her target as 'she' and 'her'. " Not sure I buy it...if Sarah was to die of cancer, I don't see how that can change, unless it is just a random act of chance. Derek is just confused becuase he wants to trust Jesse, whom he loves, but he can't. He wants to not trust Cameron, becuase she is metal, but she is proving more reliable. Jesse is appearing to biggest threat on the horizon, other than skynet of course. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK-50	56. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 11:40 AM EST "Not sure I buy it...if Sarah was to die of cancer, I don't see how that can change, unless it is just a random act of chance. Derek is just confused becuase he wants to trust Jesse, whom he loves, but he can't. He wants to not trust Cameron, becuase she is metal, but she is proving more reliable. Jesse is appearing to biggest threat on the horizon, other than skynet of course." I really didn't buy the theory, either, until I went back and re-watched it. Prior to that, like everyone else, I thought for sure that they were refering to Cameron, but now, I'm leaning pretty strongly against it. The clues are mostly subtle, but upon further review, I think they really do point at Sarah rather than Cameron. As for Jesse being a major threat, on that count, I agree completely. I think she's a turncoat and definitely does not have John's best interests in mind. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK-50	57. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 11:43 AM EST One point I failed to mention... Regarding Sarah's death due to cancer, this can possibly be explained away by the time jump. Due to the leap forward in time, she was no longer exposed to whatever caused her to develop cancer in the original timeline. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK103	58. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 11:59 AM EST Jesse is talking about Cameron... "Her.. it.. metal.." It's very clear. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK-50	59. RE: Cameron Running the Resistance Nov 27 2008, 12:14 PM EST "Jesse is talking about Cameron... "Her.. it.. metal.." It's very clear." I thought so as well initially. However, she's actually just listing the occupants of the Connor household. Paraphrasing her statement, it was something along the lines of 'you didn't tell me that you were living with him, her, IT...metal.' She lists John, Sarah and Cameron. She refers to Cameron specifically as 'it', but then questions the future decision-maker as a 'her' and 'she'. But the greater context is the episode itself. Jesse's target is making mistakes in the future. Who made mistakes in this episode? Sarah. Who's judgement does Derek repeatedly question during the episode? Sarah's. Even in the little recap thing they do before the episode to emphasize plot points for the episode to follow, who is John running from to be with Riley? Sarah. They wanted us to believe the reference was to Cameron by emphasizing 'it' in Jesse's speech, so they could set it up as a surprise plot twist. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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Location: Episode 10 | Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point

Discussion: Cameron Running the Resistance

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