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Bonta-kun
Bonta-kun
Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 1:17 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 1:17 PM EST
Ellison seem to think that teaching John Henry the 10 commandments will create a gentler, kinder AI. But seems to me that this could very well backfire; JH might eventually think that humanity has committed too much sin and needs a reboot... just a thought. 4  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    
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indiscreet
indiscreet
1. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 1:29 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 1:29 PM EST
"Ellison seem to think that teaching John Henry the 10 commandments will create a gentler, kinder AI. But seems to me that this could very well backfire; JH might eventually think that humanity has committed too much sin and needs a reboot... just a thought."
generally it is a bad idea to use religious texts if you want someone to become a good person

John Henry might get the idea to read the bible himself. And then he would read about all the genozides that are attributed to the loving god of the bible. Might create some ideas about evolving into a similarly 'loving' being ...
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spear401
spear401
2. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 1:31 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 1:31 PM EST
Uh-oh, Skynet in the making... 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Thecolours
Thecolours
3. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 1:35 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 1:35 PM EST
Maybe Ellison should be teaching John Henry some ethics by Aritsotle, instead. If Ellison starts off by teaching The Turk about the old testament, that could be a bad place to start. The old testament is filled with retrubition, and warfare. Think about the Brothers of Nablus story. 4  out of 5 found this valuable. Do you?    
ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
4. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 1:36 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 1:36 PM EST
Skynet's new philosophy: Kill them all and let God sort them out. 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    

gtcristian
5. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:05 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:05 PM EST
Remeber what Andy Goode said in the future: " built skynet...we were a group, 10, 15...i buit a mind, it became angry and scared and i couldn't reassure it." I suppose this is still ment to happen with the turk. But who were the others 10-15? Are those the people on the basement wall? 3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    

JayCrimson
6. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:08 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:08 PM EST
He'd be better off teaching Skynet a loose version of Isaac Asimov's 3 rules:

1) You may not injure a human beingor , through inaction, let a human be harmed.
2) Obey the laws and orders of humans, unless these conflict with the first law.
3) Protect your own excistence if it does not conflict with the first or second law.
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Buchholzer
7. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:28 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:28 PM EST
"He'd be better off teaching Skynet a loose version of Isaac Asimov's 3 rules:

1) You may not injure a human beingor , through inaction, let a human be harmed.
2) Obey the laws and orders of humans, unless these conflict with the first law.
3) Protect your own excistence if it does not conflict with the first or second law."
Good Idea, but you cannot put these 3 rules into a millitary programm.
that would be give a great confliction in the program
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indiscreet
indiscreet
8. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:35 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:35 PM EST
"Good Idea, but you cannot put these 3 rules into a millitary programm.
that would be give a great confliction in the program"
That's why using robots for military purposes is a bad idea.

The machine could decide that you are not very different from the people that should be killed.
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Eten
9. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:42 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:42 PM EST
"He'd be better off teaching Skynet a loose version of Isaac Asimov's 3 rules:

1) You may not injure a human beingor , through inaction, let a human be harmed.
2) Obey the laws and orders of humans, unless these conflict with the first law.
3) Protect your own excistence if it does not conflict with the first or second law."
Those rules don't work. Asimov made them up and then spent the rest of the time showing how they're eventually gotten around. That was the whole point.

You might think that it is possible or even ideal to give intelligent machines some hard and fast rules so they don't go on killing rampages, but in truth if you want them to respect human life like humans do, you got to give them the same reasons why humans don't always kill each other, whatever that may be.
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jmsnooks
jmsnooks
10. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:46 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:46 PM EST
"Ellison seem to think that teaching John Henry the 10 commandments will create a gentler, kinder AI. But seems to me that this could very well backfire; JH might eventually think that humanity has committed too much sin and needs a reboot... just a thought."
It's weird that she wants him to try. The unexpected plot twists are fascinating but there's a lot going on now that I don't understand. Hopefully it will all make sense before the end of the series.
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Trey8Snub
Trey8Snub
11. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:48 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:48 PM EST
"Those rules don't work. Asimov made them up and then spent the rest of the time showing how they're eventually gotten around. That was the whole point.

You might think that it is possible or even ideal to give intelligent machines some hard and fast rules so they don't go on killing rampages, but in truth if you want them to respect human life like humans do, you got to give them the same reasons why humans don't always kill each other, whatever that may be."
Humans do kill each other all the time though, the problem is when a computer has the ability to kill every human. I'm sure plenty of humans would have done it by now if they had the ability to.

I'm going to side with Isaac Asimov's 3 rules here, reading the bible to it is just about the stupidest thing anyone could possibly do to John Henry. Is he meant to take it literally? Such a bad idea...
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jarhead_h
jarhead_h
12. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:53 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:53 PM EST
"Those rules don't work. Asimov made them up and then spent the rest of the time showing how they're eventually gotten around. That was the whole point.

You might think that it is possible or even ideal to give intelligent machines some hard and fast rules so they don't go on killing rampages, but in truth if you want them to respect human life like humans do, you got to give them the same reasons why humans don't always kill each other, whatever that may be."
This is why Weaverbot is not hardwiring the Turk not to kill, but instead trying to teach it the way humans do. Ultimately a truly sentient mind will decide it's own way in any given situation, with the rules serving as guidelines, even those carved into stone. Since she is obviously not following a Skynet directive, that means she understands this first hand. She's making it up as she goes, making her own rules and doing whatever it takes to produce a Skynet that won't kill off humanity on a whim. At least, I can't think of any other reason why she would be trying to find a "father" for her "child," none other than she wants it to grow up to play nice with the other kids.
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Buchholzer
13. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:57 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:57 PM EST
You will never find a better reason to start a war as religion. 2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
spear401
spear401
14. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:57 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:57 PM EST
Are we so sure CW is forming Skynet and not some other entity? I guess that would take the storyline off in a totally different, time-consuming direction, huh? (Answered my own question. never mind). 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
TerminTatorTot
TerminTatorTot
15. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 2:59 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 2:59 PM EST
Bottom line is that you can't trust anybody, humans or robots, no matter what the training. The difference is the Terminators are so powerful that when they go bad everybody notices. Remember "Blade Runner", when humans outlawed replicants (robots) because a few went bad and nailed some people. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Eten
16. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 3:12 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 3:12 PM EST
"Are we so sure CW is forming Skynet and not some other entity? I guess that would take the storyline off in a totally different, time-consuming direction, huh? (Answered my own question. never mind)."
No I agree with you. I'm doubting my initial assumption that Weaver's motives was to ensure the creation of Skynet, perhaps sent back because of what happened to Andy Goode.

But now I'm thinking she's got something different in mind. Like instead of either looking to make Skynet win, or looking to stop Skynet, she wants to create a future where intelligent machines and humans can get along and coexist.
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jarhead_h
jarhead_h
17. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 3:24 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 3:24 PM EST
"You will never find a better reason to start a war as religion."
Religion is never the root cause of war, it's the excuse used to sell the general public on it. Wars are always fought over land, resources, and control. And in reality the first two result in the third. That's how FORCE works, it's ALWAYS about control. One of the reasons why I don't understand why peace protesters are so hateful towards military - the soldier does not start a war, he finishes it. If you want to look to the cause, you have to look to who gives the soldier his orders.

It's the type A asshole running things that start wars, and religion is just a convenient way to rally the troops.

You'll find that generally those that follow whatever religion you're talking about only want to be left alone to live theri little lives and raise their many children. Religion itself is a healthy expression of the human experience.

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indiscreet
indiscreet
18. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 3:25 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 3:25 PM EST
"Religion is never the root cause of war, it's the excuse used to sell the general public on it. Wars are always fought over land, resources, and control. And in reality the first two result in the third. That's how FORCE works, it's ALWAYS about control. One of the reasons why I don't understand why peace protesters are so hateful towards military - the soldier does not start a war, he finishes it. If you want to look to the cause, you have to look to who gives the soldier his orders.

It's the type A asshole running things that start wars, and religion is just a convenient way to rally the troops.

You'll find that generally those that follow whatever religion you're talking about only want to be left alone to live theri little lives and raise their many children. Religion itself is a healthy expression of the human experience.

"
This post contains large amounts of truth.
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CuthbertAllgood
CuthbertAllgood
19. RE: Might not be a good idea to teach John Henry the 10 commandments
Nov 25 2008, 4:22 PM EST | Post edited: Nov 25 2008, 4:22 PM EST
"Skynet's new philosophy: Kill them all and let God sort them out."
That's very Battlestar Galactica.
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