"I don't see a problem with current day John but I do with FutureJohn... the movies made futureJohn sound like a great man and leader, heroic and rallied the people and like he was well received and everyone loved him... this show makes it appear to be the opposite. First Derek didn't like him all that much, Martin is all "if John wants to shoot me for disobeying orders he can get in line" and now Jesse doesn't like futureJohn... is there ANYONE in the future that likes John and thinks highly from him or is it all BS?"

"But present day John is NOT the savior of the world... maybe that deathly hardcore battle is AFTER the bombs drop, not before? Maybe how he reacts and what he does AFTER the bombs drop is what makes him this great man and not right now?

I gotta give T3 credit in that it has some pretty good lines. John says something like "What if you knew you were supposed to be someone great but the catch is something terrible had to happen first." I'm paraphrasing there but it works here.... yes, John Connor WILL be great (or supposedly, maybe not according to this show) but something terrible needs to happen FIRST. I think JD and what he goes through post-JD is what makes John Connor FutureJohn in all his awesomeness... not something that happens when he's 16 years old."

"that is a good point. maybe the struggle will happen now or in the future, but either way in my humble opinion it should happen simply for the reason that the john right now is not on a course that i can see will lead him to be this great leader. that's why i suggested that some sort of event should happen where he's cut off from his usual life lines (mom, derek, cameron) and is confronted with dealing with the future himself. "

"How is he a wuss, he strangled a man to death. Hes got a bigger #$%^ than his mother who constantly brings trouble down on them for not being man enough to kill ppl."

"One thing that's been going around my head for weeks is...what if this John ISN'T the savior of mankind? They are changing the future. They're very naive if they think they're only changing skynet. Remember, Sarah was supposed to die and now that she's alive maybe John can't grow in the way he was supposed to to become what he was in the future of T1 and T2. He doesn't HAVE to. She's still there. Mommy is still around to fight his battles for him and fix everything. He can't turn into a hardened leader when he's got his mom, his uncle and a nearly indestructible machine doing everything they can to keep him from having to make hard choices."

"I agree with you in some ways, but remember, John is a 16 year old kid and only a few years removed from being the brat that he was in T-2. I'd say that he's made quite a bit of progress, though yes, he still has a long way to go. "

"First of all, if Sarah did try and stop Skynet is Kyle's future he wouldn't have known about it. But if that was her mission, she failed and I don't think John would tell stories of his mother's failures.

Also, Sarah first started trying to stop Skynet before T2 happened. That's how she got arrested in the first place, for blowing up a computer building. She's just being WAY MORE active now than she was then.

But, I still don't think that Sarah is keeping John from growing. Yes, she says "this mission is too dangerous for you, etc." but it is common sense. He is the general, the future of the Resistance, he is the King... they don't go out into battle to get themselves killed. They're on the battlefield, but farther away (like the scene in T2 of OldJohn). "

"This is the one flaw in the show.

Having John as a 16-year old really handcuffs the writers, and limits what they can do with the character. Assuming TSCC runs 3, 4, 5+ years, it will be a long journey if John ages in real time.

"