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HarveyDent |
100. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 21 2008, 3:45 PM EST
It's difficult to appreciate that subplot when the major plot centered around a useless transvestite character in which way too much time was spent on that person's trauma and grief.
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Iranatest |
101. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 21 2008, 6:30 PM EST
I guess you're talking about the original post. Yes it is difficult to follow and it will hopefully take years to resolve :)I'm not totally convinced that the cross dresser was wanting to be a transvestite, maybe 60% from her dialogue. However it is a kick butt disguise. Do you find this valuable? |
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THX-1138 |
102. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 2:03 AM EST
"It's difficult to appreciate that subplot when the major plot centered around a useless transvestite character in which way too much time was spent on that person's trauma and grief."Abraham needed the ultimate disguise to safeguard his life. The fact he reinvented himself as a woman has nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with protecting his anonymity. Considering the sensitive nature of the HK-drones and what he was working on, it would not have been sufficient to simply change his name and go on to divulge what he knew. He had to be completely and utterly transformed, so as to avoid ever being found out. I thought it was a bold and believable piece of storytelling. 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you? |
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HarveyDent |
103. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 6:08 PM EST
I don't give a single solitary shit about Abraham and his traumatic experiences. All I cared about in that storyline was Sarah's journey.There are NINE major characters already. The show doesn't need Kyle Reese added to the main mix. We've seen COUNTLESS side characters, so there's no need to dig into the psychological trauma of Abraham, or find out about a Terminator mistakenly placed in the wrong century that has the mission of murdering a politician, or a girl whose blood has some cure for a disease, or any other nonsense that will have absolutely NO bearing on the eventual series finale. The writers wanna give us character development? Look at that boot camp episode - we found just how deep everyone will go in the fight against machines, we found out that despite how much of a nuisance John has been throughout the season that he deep down is a hero willing to sacrifice himself for the good of others, and we got a backstory that helped explain why Derek is so cold about the war. There were two subplots in the last episode that had FAR more interesting elements to them - a human teaching a machine the basics of morality, and a teenager who has LIVED through the war, being used to seduce the very man that will go on to be the savior of the human race, and her struggles to continue with that mission. These subplots also involved in some way ALL of the nine major characters. If minor characters are going to be included in backstories for the major characters, make sure that these minor characters actually help provide us the DESCRIPTION of what has shaped the personalities of the major characters. You know why that Charles Fischer episode was so great? It not only showed us how Skynet is trying to get the upper hand in the present, but because it showed how things have already been changed, it explained why Jesse is so cold, and it gave another example of what Derek'll do to save us. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DeusEx |
104. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 7:45 PM EST
I need to rewatch the eipsode again by my impression was the whole Abraham man.woman thing was to be used as a foil against which to explain parts of Sarah's personality. I remember him saying something like "Im a man living as a woman and your a woman living as a..." "Shut Up!" Sarah yells, pointing a gun fown his throat. Also, there was something really funny about the monolgue on the way to the factory, it was Abraham all the way, but it ends on "Who am I? I'm a waitress." I bet on a repeat, looking carefully at Sarah, it will all be about her. Damm now I want to go watch it again. Parenthetcially, in all the eps you mentioned, its the bootcamp one I liked the least but I won't go into why again here. Like I said, need to see it all again. But I bet if you watch it with an eye Do you find this valuable? |
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DeusEx |
105. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 7:46 PM EST
...eye...on Sarah, it will all be about here.
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IvyMike |
106. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 7:53 PM EST
"I need to rewatch the eipsode again by my impression was the whole Abraham man.woman thing was to be used as a foil against which to explain parts of Sarah's personality.Yes I think so, same device as with Sarah/Kacy in AFP. Do you find this valuable? |
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notty22 |
107. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 8:06 PM EST
"It's difficult to appreciate that subplot when the major plot centered around a useless transvestite character in which way too much time was spent on that person's trauma and grief."I agree with both your above posts, very well said. I think the shows dynamic suffered a blow with the last 3 episodes they were all good. But we are after the cliffhanger for the midseason finale and everything just feels anti-climatic. It feels like a song that ended before the crescendo . I honestly don't know how they could have done it different. But the suspense seems to be lacking. I don't feel Riley is going to die. How do you think they will find Sarah, gps her cell phone? If she is found by anyone else with a dead body right there a: the bad guys would kill her? b: the authorities would have her in maximum security after the wound was attended to. Do you find this valuable? |
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THX-1138 |
108. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 11:22 PM EST
"How do you think they will find Sarah, gps her cell phone?"Considering the preview showed us Kyle Reese, can you imagine this show having him save her in some way...AGAIN?! 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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notty22 |
109. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 22 2008, 11:40 PM EST
"Considering the preview showed us Kyle Reese, can you imagine this show having him save her in some way...AGAIN?!"Reading your thought, I got a image of Sarah laying there in the sun, in the distance in dry dusty dirt road you see a 85 ford ltd wagon barreling up the road ,brown dirt dust flying everywhere. The car grinds to a halt and Kyle Reese in a bland green trench coat jumps out of the wagon. Nahh , they have shown, a lot of time travel but never ever the ability to jump in to a very specific time. Could he intercede on a specific date if in the future he knew that Sarah bled out at that farm? Lots of maybes. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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razeak |
110. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 23 2008, 1:30 AM EST
"I think I might have to find a new place to discuss Terminator. I want to discuss deep philosophical implications of the storyline, but this clearly isn't the place to do it. For example, someone makes a thread about Cameron's smoothie line around the same time as I make this one and the smoothie thread is already two pages in length. So, two pages about a freaking smoothie while I receive zero response to the central theme and development in the storyline of this series. Yeah, I think it speaks for itself."It is why I lurk most days. "OMG SHE WANTS A SMOOTHIE!" Do you find this valuable? |
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razeak |
111. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 23 2008, 2:03 AM EST
"Of all the big open issues, the Riley factor seems to be the only one getting anywhere. We actually saw her in the future chosen by Jesse "~you're a pretty one". Wait, wasn't that from the witch in the Wizard of Oz? I don't need to review TWOO, I saw it every year for 20 years! Now i gotta watch the last episode again. he he.My interpretation of the three dots is that they represent fear, that they are a warning of sorts. Maybe something bad happens because Sarah investigates that warehouse. The three dots invoke what is probably a powerful image to Judgement Day survivors. In shots of the future in all of the movies and in some episodes of the series, the Aerial HKs are constantly patrolling the ruins. If you're crawling around in the rubble and you look up that is probably the most overt reminder of Skynet's power(minus the nuclear wastelands). After thinking it over some more, I may not even believe my own theory any more because Derek never reacted to it. He may have not just put two and two together though. As for reading a book to find something deep, story telling is story telling whether it is oral, written or on film. It is all the same, it is just presented differently. Do you find this valuable? |
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razeak |
112. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 23 2008, 2:08 AM EST
"Abraham needed the ultimate disguise to safeguard his life. The fact he reinvented himself as a woman has nothing to do with his sexual preference and everything to do with protecting his anonymity. Considering the sensitive nature of the HK-drones and what he was working on, it would not have been sufficient to simply change his name and go on to divulge what he knew. He had to be completely and utterly transformed, so as to avoid ever being found out. I thought it was a bold and believable piece of storytelling."I agree. The dialogue was horrible though. I think that they were looking to make us care about the character and that is why so much of the episode was focused on Abraham because they were going to kill him off. Bold and believable it was, just not done very well. With all of the main characters in the show, too much time was spent on Abraham. Do you find this valuable? |
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Talon_Svarog |
113. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Dec 23 2008, 2:13 AM EST
"I don't give a single solitary shit about Abraham and his traumatic experiences. All I cared about in that storyline was Sarah's journey.I don't think that the digging through Abraham's psychological trauma had anything to do with his character development. Instead, it was Sarah trying to find out about the three dots, and to do that she had to gain his trust and then get the information of him. About the terminator, I found that the episode was more about Cameron's development as a character then the terminator, and displaying the extent that a terminator would go to to complete an objective, which helps the viewer understand the predicament that the Connor's are in. I saw Alpine Fields several ways. First, it could be providing further evidence that Jesse and Derek are from different timelines, because Jesse in Derek's future doesn't seem to mind a terminator commanding the submarine. Secondly, it provides some character development for Sarah and Derek. Just because these episodes don't have any visible bearing on the eventual series finale does not mean that they could be discounted. This is coming from a hardcore Stargate fan, but plenty of Stargate episodes had no visible bearing on the series, but instead came back to haunt the viewer years later. Do you find this valuable? |
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MichalNancyKarni |
114. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Feb 14 2009, 4:45 PM EST
"I think you've hit on something here. this idea was in an episode the one with the "Gray" traitor that helps the terms. This could be Weaver's intention, to create a machine that already thinks like a human to undermine the resistance in the future. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ZMAN738 |
115. RE: Don't overlook the central theme of episode 13
Feb 15 2009, 2:28 PM EST
"I think you've hit on something here. this idea was in an episode the one with the "Gray" traitor that helps the terms.I agree. As I posted above, Sun Tzu wrote in "The Art of War" in 441B.C. Offensive Strategy: V.31 "Therefore I say: 'Know the enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles you will never be in peril'." For Skynet to succeed this time it is crucial that JH "understand" Humans better because the past has shown that machine logic failed to stop the resistance. I thought that was the point of episode 2.10 "Strange Things Happen at the One, Two Point" with the Japanese kid building the computer to play Go instead of Chess (Turk) because the thought process involved in mastering Go is infinitely more complex than Chess and requires "intuitive" thinking rather than the mire calculation of future moves needed to win. It was scary to watch JH speak of itself in the third person (This body has done this & that etc.) in this weeks episode 2.14 "The Good Wound" because it is already starting to become self aware. Whoa! Do you find this valuable? |