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rjmatz
rjmatz
40. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 9:27 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 9:27 PM EST
"Nope. If you use penetrators, the first shot does the work just fine.
If engaging a Terminator, you don't want to be using rounds that mushroom out in flesh or clothing, you want every round to dent the endo, work harden and fracture it."
i guess i was just saying they would be an improvement over the standard 9mm, wasnt saying they would be the end all saving grace. again, out of my league here. ill trust u guys on this stuff :)
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TerminTatorTot
TerminTatorTot
41. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 10:08 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 10:08 PM EST
Actually, if the writers wanted to get really sophisticated, they could copy this thing where each bullet is extremely rapid-fired from the same barrel, each bullet about 6 inches behind the other, often entering the same hole the first one starts to make. Don't ask me how I know that. Do you find this valuable?    
TackDriver1956
TackDriver1956
42. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 10:34 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 10:34 PM EST
"Actually, if the writers wanted to get really sophisticated, they could copy this thing where each bullet is extremely rapid-fired from the same barrel, each bullet about 6 inches behind the other, often entering the same hole the first one starts to make. Don't ask me how I know that."
Metal Storm... it's not a secret anymore.
I think TSCC writers are trying to stick with weapons and ammunition that would be readily available on the black market.
Which is kind of silly when you think about it, given how ineffective it is.
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TerminTatorTot
TerminTatorTot
43. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 10:38 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 10:38 PM EST
"Metal Storm... it's not a secret anymore.
I think TSCC writers are trying to stick with weapons and ammunition that would be readily available on the black market.
Which is kind of silly when you think about it, given how ineffective it is."
OK, not secret anymore. I worked on a Gladiator bot proposal several years ago that used that.
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TackDriver1956
TackDriver1956
44. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 10:54 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 10:54 PM EST
"OK, not secret anymore. I worked on a Gladiator bot proposal several years ago that used that."
So, basically, you're building weapons for SkyNet?
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TerminTatorTot
TerminTatorTot
45. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 29 2009, 10:56 PM EST | Post edited: Jan 29 2009, 10:56 PM EST
"So, basically, you're building weapons for SkyNet?"
That was years ago. We lost the proposal. Not my fault, I don't think.(?)
Oh, I know: A company called Zeira Corp got the contract.
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xubu
xubu
46. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 8:14 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 8:14 AM EST
"XUBU,
We've also seen Cromartie miss John when he really shouldn't have.

Sarah might be carrying a 9mm for the same reason that many choose that caliber in real life: it's the most power the individual shooter can reliably control and recover for repeated follow-up shots.

Cameron should be able to control a .45 ACP, but perhaps chose the Glock 9mm for greater magazine capacity. If one can accurately place one's shots, a single round of 9mm can do the job, and there's room for more rounds in the mag.

On the other hand, Summer Glau isn't a very big girl, and perhaps SHE can't handle the .45 or any of the other big ones.

I would like to see John and / or Derek carrying something like an Olympic Arms OA93 .223 pistol, or .357 SIG (high velocity) with penetrator ammo (banned, but I'm sure Law Enforcement or military have them) Something like this should do sufficient damage to stop a terminator, with the right shot placement."

Olympic Arms OA93 .223 ! Definitely ! WICKED !!!
Looks VERY futuristic aswell...
But, as you mentioned... I'd rather see Dereck draw a S&W 500 !

You are right, that Summer Glau is a small (and hot, but that's not the issue) Girl, but a Desert Eagle can be converted to the smaller .38, so if they keep the Muzzle out of Sight, it should be oki... Only Pro's, such as the "Soldier of Fortune"-Magazine would notice, but the rest of us mortal People...

Ammo comparison:
http://images.google.dk/imgres?imgurl=http://markirwin.com/images/calibers.jpg&imgrefurl=http://markirwin.com/misc/calibers.html&usg=__xmk2BXTXgX31u-Hw1Wz_M1sQMjA=&h=303&w=545&sz=36&hl=da&start=5&sig2=WLSTPRRozhjjgObSQuu8Bw&um=1&tbnid=xPP3WULarW_dHM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=133&ei=-_iCSdAwipr6BvHb3Sw&prev=/images%3Fq%3D.357%2BSIG%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dda%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:unofficial%26sa%3DG

"...Winchester's LE "Ranger T" 127-grain +P+ is probably the best defensive 9mm round on the market...."
This should be able to rip at least a SMALL Hole...
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Defensive%20Browning%20Hi%20Power_files/image004.jpg
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xubu
xubu
47. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 8:28 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 8:28 AM EST
"You're right. We've seen Derek use a Desert Eagle on a T-888. It was firing .50 AE rounds, based on the 7 round mag capacity if his weapon. The T-888 just absorbed the bullets like it was nothing.

While designed for softer targets, I wonder if hollow point rounds would make any difference? "

That's strange... It would be in the same Category as a Sting from a Mosquito or a Wasp...
What Episode/Season was that...? I don't recall...

But the sick Barret Rifle...!
I didn't knew, but our own Special Force "Jaegerkorpset" (directly translated: The Huntercorps") actually has one of those lying around :p *"Castor Troy-Grin* (as most SF, I guess... Marine Recon got them ;))...
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xubu
xubu
48. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 8:31 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 8:31 AM EST
"When engaging a Terminator, you need maximum penetration.
Hollow points are "going the wrong way". They're designed NOT to overpenetrate.

If Kyle Reese were around, I'll bet he could construct some EFP (explosively formed projectile) rounds, using common household cleaning products. (grin)."
... and a hardboiled Egg... *LOL*!
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xubu
xubu
49. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 8:39 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 8:39 AM EST
"Nope. If you use penetrators, the first shot does the work just fine.
If engaging a Terminator, you don't want to be using rounds that mushroom out in flesh or clothing, you want every round to dent the endo, work harden and fracture it."

Sounds reasonable..
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xubu
xubu
50. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 9:00 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 9:00 AM EST
"XUBU,
We've also seen Cromartie miss John when he really shouldn't have.

Sarah might be carrying a 9mm for the same reason that many choose that caliber in real life: it's the most power the individual shooter can reliably control and recover for repeated follow-up shots.

Cameron should be able to control a .45 ACP, but perhaps chose the Glock 9mm for greater magazine capacity. If one can accurately place one's shots, a single round of 9mm can do the job, and there's room for more rounds in the mag.

On the other hand, Summer Glau isn't a very big girl, and perhaps SHE can't handle the .45 or any of the other big ones.

I would like to see John and / or Derek carrying something like an Olympic Arms OA93 .223 pistol, or .357 SIG (high velocity) with penetrator ammo (banned, but I'm sure Law Enforcement or military have them) Something like this should do sufficient damage to stop a terminator, with the right shot placement."

But don't you think a High Velocity Bullet would splinter on Impact with the Endo making less Damage than a "normal Velocity" larger Bullet...?
Sometimes, when I'm able to, I watch MythBusters and once they had a Show about Movie Effects... Is it possible to see the shots as in Movies, when you're under Water...? Many (if not all, I don't remember) of the Rifle Bullets (High Velocity) splintered on Impact...
I know this is not Water and I've only shot five Rounds with a Taurus 9mm and a Cal.38 (Smith & Wesson BTW), now and then at a Shooting Club... Both "normal" Ammo... I really don't know that much about Guns practically, but I've read some... I'm just guessing...
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xubu
xubu
51. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 9:09 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 9:09 AM EST
"Because sadly, walking down the road with a .50 cal strapped to your back tends to draw attention"
Yeah ... You're right...
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ozdp
ozdp
52. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 9:34 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 9:34 AM EST
well working with what is relatively available, H&K G3 or The SLR (L1A1) both of these are easy to get your hands on in a military / mercenary sense but more importantly both take 7.62 NATO which at that caliber comes in Semi-Armour Piercing High Explosive (SAPHE) AP tip with an explosive body. there are a few other alternatives in this field Incendiary is a maybe, but few other rifles have the numbers or reliability of these two. the next alternative is true AP or even Anti-Materials, this is what the M82 Barret that they use in the 888 ambush, a solid slug of depleted uranium enough punch to go through an APC at 2 miles, it's primary purpose is to destroy munitions and other battlefield hazards.

If you wanted to go the concentrated / simultaneous hit method H&K G11, very rare but fires a 3 round burst at 2200 rpm cyclic enough to have all three rounds hit withing a 1 inch grouping for a single trigger pull also has the advantave of being very compact, large mag and no casings to clean up afterwoods but as i said extremely rare
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TackDriver1956
TackDriver1956
53. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 9:42 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 9:42 AM EST
"
But don't you think a High Velocity Bullet would splinter on Impact with the Endo making less Damage than a "normal Velocity" larger Bullet...?
Sometimes, when I'm able to, I watch MythBusters and once they had a Show about Movie Effects... Is it possible to see the shots as in Movies, when you're under Water...? Many (if not all, I don't remember) of the Rifle Bullets (High Velocity) splintered on Impact...
I know this is not Water and I've only shot five Rounds with a Taurus 9mm and a Cal.38 (Smith & Wesson BTW), now and then at a Shooting Club... Both "normal" Ammo... I really don't know that much about Guns practically, but I've read some... I'm just guessing...
"
I guess they need to go back and test steel/tungsten core bullets.

John should attempt to recruit Adam Savage and Jamie Hieneman as a special projects team.

I think the underwater shots you see in the movies are all CG, because no-one in the scene is ever wearing hearing protection. see glockfaq.com/generalinfo.htm#h2o. READ THE WARNINGS!

To paraphrase the Mythbusters: Do NOT try anything you see us do, at home, EVER!

Cammy's Glock 17 could be converted for underwater firing, I don't know when she'd use it that way though; she's already said she doesn't swim. But maybe she lied about that.
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notty22
notty22
54. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 10:30 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 10:30 AM EST
Do you remember the gun, John Connor used in T3 at the end in the Bunker, it had a extended clip and was converted to full auto hand gun. This is a weapon I would llike to see used on the show, no more needed space than hand gun, what size bullet does UZI fire, bigger caliber than what I just described? Do you find this valuable?    
TerminTatorTot
TerminTatorTot
55. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 30 2009, 10:55 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 30 2009, 10:55 AM EST
"Do you remember the gun, John Connor used in T3 at the end in the Bunker, it had a extended clip and was converted to full auto hand gun. This is a weapon I would llike to see used on the show, no more needed space than hand gun, what size bullet does UZI fire, bigger caliber than what I just described?"
I believe an Uzi is made for soft targets, not armor piercing. Like a 9mm round, its energy and penetrating power is very low.
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Talon_Svarog
Talon_Svarog
56. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 31 2009, 1:36 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2009, 1:36 AM EST
"On the other hand, Summer Glau isn't a very big girl, and perhaps SHE can't handle the .45 or any of the other big ones."

I doubt any of the guns they use are real ones. All they need is for it to be a model if it, they can always just use sound effects to produce the sound. So yes, they could have Summer wielding weapons that, were they real, she would not be able to.
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UZI4YOU
UZI4YOU
57. RE: Why Guns ?
Jan 31 2009, 10:18 AM EST | Post edited: Jan 31 2009, 10:18 AM EST
"In T1 and T:SCC they always carry small Firearms... What for, I wonder...?
Every Time the Terminator eats the Bullets like Candy and just don't care... Unless it's a Shotgun, automatic Weapons or Explosives it doesn't stop...
Nevermind...

=> loki424
You're absolutely right: They really need more instances of Summer Glau's clothing being disintegrated. ;)
"
50 caliber gating guns. 3 barrels spit out 2000 rounds a minuate if I rember correctly off the top of my head. Used on many USA medium lift choopers as standard weapons repalcing the M60 guns.
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starwars1138
58. RE: Why Guns ?
Apr 11 2009, 9:35 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 11 2009, 9:39 AM EDT
I saw the image of summer with two guns behind her back somewhere, and now I can't remenber where !!! could you please tell me where you saw it ?? thanks Do you find this valuable?    
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