Discussion: What do Shippers want?

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ChrisCoachKKincey	What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 4:48 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 4:48 PM EST What is a "shipper." Where did this term come from? I've had a lot of good conversations with shippers, and I have made some observations that make shippers squirm and firm up their positions to justify their intense adoration of Cameron and their wanting her to become "humanlike" and utimately get involved in a relationship with John Conners. I actually like most shippers and their theories. I like Cameron as played by Summer, I think she steals the show, and Josh needs to have her more involved as a central theme that is portrayed a LOT more than it is. This would involve Sarah and John too. We need to know why she is here, and move forward in the story and not get teasers that lead to nowhere for a long time (years!). But I think sex as a function of "Jameron" is sick and twisted. True, BSG pulled it off, and STNG did a bit with this, but never in the "Twilight" point of view (teen love). Lastly, I think shippers read to much into the Cam sharacters for her actions or motivations, as they WANT her to be a human and interpet what she does in human terms. I see this as largely because Summer is so adorabley cute it is hard to separate the actor from the cyborg... In fact, the writers left a lot up in the air, on purpose - which is a lazy "out" so they'd have more room to work with later (if there is a later). But Cam is a machine programmed and re-programmed, made with a function and purpose, and is only doing what is true to those parameters (thus far). If she does more we may know more, but to put more on it is a mistake IMO. I'd like to hear from shippers, as I have stepped up and let you know where I'm coming from, without insulting you. I'm calling it as I see it, and knowing no one is right on this - bc the writer's might not know this stuff yet - holla (but keep it civil please) Post reply 5 out of 10 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: allison building churches and school burning buildings cameron corvettes cyborg glau jameron john love robot SERIOUSLY OFF TOPIC shipper skynet STAY AWAY summer superhero chris terminator TSCC
HealingMindN	1. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 4:55 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 4:55 PM EST You're talking about a sexual function, like we assume Vick had with his wife. OK. I"m ready. Make me squirm. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Schmacky	2. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 4:58 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 4:58 PM EST You hit a lot of good points Chris. I think the biggest one is reading too much into Cam's character because they WANT her to be more human-like. Post reply 5 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Pharazon	3. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:03 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:03 PM EST I'll try to answer most of your questions. If I understand rightly, "shipper" comes from the word "relationship," if that makes sense to ya. I think part of what got it started, for me at least, was that from the start Cameron's character was "different." For me it was the chip scene, where she says, "I am." We are presented with a terminator that has great potential for developing her humanity, and we're still learning more about her. I think Cameron's character is a very imporant facet of the show, and I really hope they continue to explore that in the back 9 (and season 3!). And I would appreciate it if you don't assume all of us Jameron shippers are obsessed with some kind of sexual relationship between John and Cameron. It's much more about the characters themselves, and I'm positive they can pull off a relationship without having to go that far. As far as reading into Cameron's actions/motivations, I agree that we sometimes find her "humanity" in small things...but that's really where it is, at least right now. We're not necessarily inventing things up--Summer has said herself that she plays Cameron as though she did feel something for John. On the note of her programming, as many of us have said before, I think Cameron chose to override the terminate command, and right now she has chosen to stay and protect John. Since she is capable of making such decisions, I also believe she will choose to leave John for a while at the end of the season, even though she doesn't want to. Hope this helps some. Post reply 6 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ChrisCoachKKincey	4. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:12 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:12 PM EST "You're talking about a sexual function, like we assume Vick had with his wife. OK. I"m ready. Make me squirm." Unfortuantely, that squirm might be your last, 'cause if/when you did find out your lover was a killer cyborg, it probably was at that very moment crushing your neck or putting bullet in your brain... Yikes! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK103	5. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:13 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:13 PM EST I like weird stuff like this. I like figuring out what it would mean for an AI to have relationships with humans, not just love. And I think there is something going on from pretty much the start of the series. No, not the: "OMG!1!! She's just like a real girl and loves John and they can has babies!11!" But John has had a complicated crush on her and still does. Cameron keeps playing with him and perhaps he means something to her that -- in her own yet not revealed way -- more than just a mission. And some kind of 'event' may occur between them. Post reply 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HealingMindN	6. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:13 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:13 PM EST I think Chris wants us to squirm about the sexual part. I recall my first post here. I was doing it in jest in response to a JF interview because someone asked him if there could ever be a sexual ship. I was just clowning. I didn't know I would get such a response. The way I see it, JF does not want TSCC to be a clone of BSG. I've never seen BSG, so I wouldn't know about any human/cyborg ships. I just go with what's logical. Cam and JC seem like two spirits that are destined to give the advantage to humanity over Skynet. If there's a ship in between, so be it. Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HK103	7. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:17 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:17 PM EST BSG comparison is totally flawed. Because BSG Cylons = human. Human in every way that means anything. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HealingMindN	8. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:18 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:18 PM EST "Unfortuantely, that squirm might be your last, 'cause if/when you did find out your lover was a killer cyborg, it probably was at that very moment crushing your neck or putting bullet in your brain... Yikes!" Why would that cyborg want to off me after I rocked her world nine times over? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
rjmatz	9. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:20 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:20 PM EST "What is a "shipper." Where did this term come from? I've had a lot of good conversations with shippers, and I have made some observations that make shippers squirm and firm up their positions to justify their intense adoration of Cameron and their wanting her to become "humanlike" and utimately get involved in a relationship with John Conners. I actually like most shippers and their theories. I like Cameron as played by Summer, I think she steals the show, and Josh needs to have her more involved as a central theme that is portrayed a LOT more than it is. This would involve Sarah and John too. We need to know why she is here, and move forward in the story and not get teasers that lead to nowhere for a long time (years!). But I think sex as a function of "Jameron" is sick and twisted. True, BSG pulled it off, and STNG did a bit with this, but never in the "Twilight" point of view (teen love). Lastly, I think shippers read to much into the Cam sharacters for her actions or motivations, as they WANT her to be a human and interpet what she does in human terms. I see this as largely because Summer is so adorabley cute it is hard to separate the actor from the cyborg... In fact, the writers left a lot up in the air, on purpose - which is a lazy "out" so they'd have more room to work with later (if there is a later). But Cam is a machine programmed and re-programmed, made with a function and purpose, and is only doing what is true to those parameters (thus far). If she does more we may know more, but to put more on it is a mistake IMO. I'd like to hear from shippers, as I have stepped up and let you know where I'm coming from, without insulting you. I'm calling it as I see it, and knowing no one is right on this - bc the writer's might not know this stuff yet - holla (but keep it civil please)" no we interpret those things as close to human-like (not necessarily actually like humans, but her own version of it) because thats what the movies presented us with before the series, then the actor who plays her said it, then the creator said it and finally our own interpretation of each individual scene. and my major complaint, the one that got me called a shipper repeatedly until i just gave in with the definition, is that i wanted john and cameron to be there for each other as they are all that they have. john cant form normal relationships with anyone because of who he is, and cameron has the same problem, as well as she is disliked by sarah and derek. so john is the only one who can be there for her. plus, the interactions between them with john trying to help her understand where she makes mistakes are endearing, and i enjoyed them. and i miss them this year with him being a dick for no reason. as for a sexual relationship, its broadcast tv. they will never show anything anyways, so who cares. the odd thing is u bring up the shows we cite as evidence for how it can be pulled off, but claim this show is different somehow. Post reply 7 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
kingsteve	10. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:21 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:21 PM EST I don't want Cameron to be human, and don't see her as ever being human, but I'm still a Jameron shipper. I think it would be better for Cameron to develop her emotions more, gain some level of humanity from John, but still be a Terminator. And at the same time, John learns from her, how to put emotions aside, and how to think like the machines. So they each change and evolve a little bit, thanks to the other. I don't want her to "become" human, as it cheapens her character. I'd rather John accept her for what she is, and love her for it anyway. I don't see her as becoming human, but she's still more than just a machine. Somewhere in between; a completely unique organism, you could say. She's not human, she's not just a machine. She's just... Cameron. Post reply 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
HawkDsl	11. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:24 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:24 PM EST What Pharazon said. Shippers hardly ever talk about sex. Say the following line over and over until you puke: "It's not about the sex, It's not about the sex, It's not about the sex". Shipper: A person or group of people interested in two characters possible romantic relationship. In Jamerons case, a Romeo and Juliet type. Forbidden love (the best kind). Shippers don't want a "humanized" Cameron. They want James Cameron's Original idea. A terminator that understands what it means to be human. Tin man gets a heart, but he's still a tin man. John should love Cameron for who she is, and vise versa. Romeo & Juliet. On a deeper level Cameron (The Terminators) learns the value of life and humanity, and John (Humans) learn to understand their own creation, and their responsibility to it. People who don't get it, or are limited in their creative & cognitive abilities, will scream "TOASTER!!!, SICK!!!" Calling Cameron or Skynet a toaster is like saying a paper airplane is the space shuttle. Think outside of the box. Post reply 7 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ChrisCoachKKincey	12. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:28 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:28 PM EST "I'll try to answer most of your questions. If I understand rightly, "shipper" comes from the word "relationship," if that makes sense to ya. I think part of what got it started, for me at least, was that from the start Cameron's character was "different." For me it was the chip scene, where she says, "I am." We are presented with a terminator that has great potential for developing her humanity, and we're still learning more about her. I think Cameron's character is a very imporant facet of the show, and I really hope they continue to explore that in the back 9 (and season 3!). And I would appreciate it if you don't assume all of us Jameron shippers are obsessed with some kind of sexual relationship between John and Cameron. It's much more about the characters themselves, and I'm positive they can pull off a relationship without having to go that far. As far as reading into Cameron's actions/motivations, I agree that we sometimes find her "humanity" in small things...but that's really where it is, at least right now. We're not necessarily inventing things up--Summer has said herself that she plays Cameron as though she did feel something for John. On the note of her programming, as many of us have said before, I think Cameron chose to override the terminate command, and right now she has chosen to stay and protect John. Since she is capable of making such decisions, I also believe she will choose to leave John for a while at the end of the season, even though she doesn't want to. Hope this helps some." Glad you came over to this thread; I always find your "take" on things enjoyable... Thanks for the info on Shipper. Got it. I dig Cam's potential too. I too hope they fill in the gaps in the back 9. I know I take a prudish view of the machine/human sex thing but it really doesn't sit well with me, and even though we can live in harmony on the other points, I see this as deviant behaviour that prospect is something I would not like to see in any Terminator story - unless the human did not know that they were being seduced. Let me put that another way: knowing that Cameron is a machine - and not a masterbation machine - he should keep his private parts to himself. A lot of my buddies ask to borrow my car but if I find out they raped the tailpipe because my car looks so good and is so "hot" I think they were a complete perv and loose my mind! It doesn't matter what their rationale was I don't think I'd get past that point and mentally would shut down: too much to comprehend. That you see Cam "choseL to override I do not see. Again, the writer's don't say, and did so on purpose, just to leave a crack for shippers to have the hope that you have. That's cool - really! - but I view her processing like any other computer glitch (which I deal with all day): either it shuts down altogher or it will use whatever available data path it finds. The reboot caused the JC override data path to come into prominence, which is why we see the terminate order go away. Simple. Yours is just as valid, but more along "follow the yellow bick road" to me. Its a beautiful dream - one I really would like to see happen bc Cam has so much potential to explore - but I'm sticking to the machine programming premise bc it lets my compute her range of actions with precision. Not disagreeing: just my tactic for lack of plot dev'l! Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IvyMike	13. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:30 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:30 PM EST Easier for me to start with what I don't want: I don't want Cameron to become an electronic human. I don't want Cameron to forget that she is a Terminator. I don't want the mystery of Cameron to be explained away in a scientifically or technologically plausible, but mundane fashion. I don't want John and Cam to get it on just because Summer is cute, I find that attitude patronising and somewhat insulting to me personally and to my regard of Summer as an actor. I don't want Cameron to be a macguffin, a plot device that motivates the other characters without having any intrinsic value herself as a character. I think that Cameron, Summer and we the viewers deserve more than that. What I do want: I want Cameron to be a character in her own right, with a unique perspective on the world that is neither human nor machine (if indeed, machines can have an perspective), and her own motivations - even if I don't necessarily want to know those motivations (part of the mystery). I want John to have an emotional relationship with Cameron. I think Terminator is about exploring the relationship between humanity and the technology we develop, and I want to see what that relationship might be like at the most personal level: is it possible to be in love with a machine? That doesn't mean that all I want to see is robo-sex, by "personal" I mean our deepest emotions and feelings. If however John and Cam were to develop a deep emotional relationship that eventually involved sex, I would have no particular objection. Is that all to much to ask? Post reply 5 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Pharazon	14. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:31 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:31 PM EST "What Pharazon said. " Yeah, what he said. ...wait... But yeah, ChrisCoach, hopefully you understand a bit more about where we're coming from now. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ScotWithOne_t	15. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:41 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:41 PM EST You can claim it's not about the sex, but the core of all human romance is based on sexual attraction, no matter what people want to convince themselves of otherwise. You look at a girl and think she's cute? You're not thinking that with your head, ifyaknowwhatImsayin. Maybe some shippers want John and Cameron to just be real good friends, and that's fine with me. But I get a kick out of the ones that want them to hug, kiss, hold hands, and act like a couple of love-struck teenagers, yet when te topic of sex comes up, it's; "oh no... I don't want that!!" LOL. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HawkDsl	16. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:44 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:44 PM EST Excellent. Also Chris, Cameron can never be a "masterbation machine".... Cameron can say "No". She is an A.I. An Artificial Intelligence. Like I said. Calling Cameron a toaster is like saying a paper airplane is the space shuttle. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HawkDsl	17. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:47 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:47 PM EST "You can claim it's not about the sex, but the core of all human romance is based on sexual attraction, no matter what people want to convince themselves of otherwise. You look at a girl and think she's cute? You're not thinking that with your head, ifyaknowwhatImsayin. Maybe some shippers want John and Cameron to just be real good friends, and that's fine with me. But I get a kick out of the ones that want them to hug, kiss, hold hands, and act like a couple of love-struck teenagers, yet when te topic of sex comes up, it's; "oh no... I don't want that!!" LOL." So your saying elderly couples that have been married for 50 years are only still married because of the sexual attraction? Post reply 6 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ChrisCoachKKincey	18. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:47 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:47 PM EST "I think Chris wants us to squirm about the sexual part. I recall my first post here. I was doing it in jest in response to a JF interview because someone asked him if there could ever be a sexual ship. I was just clowning. I didn't know I would get such a response. The way I see it, JF does not want TSCC to be a clone of BSG. I've never seen BSG, so I wouldn't know about any human/cyborg ships. I just go with what's logical. Cam and JC seem like two spirits that are destined to give the advantage to humanity over Skynet. If there's a ship in between, so be it." You should watch BSG, from the mini-series pilot on thru. Easily the smartest, most compelling, most sophisticated show to be seen on TV. Maybe better than X-files, which it has a foundation of groundbrakeing action/drama to build upon. I think TSCC is trying to do that do - and does a fairly good job for the most part - but sometimes they have tried too hard, or teased too much or strayed too far or not kept to the core story values and used their best assets enough. BSG set the bar very high. I don't want TSCC to be a clone either. But they took the whole shipper concepts to a whole new level: the reason 12 planets get their populations wiped out is bc a horney Dr. gives up the goods (literally) to a toaster spy he is having sex with. She even has sex with him in his mind, so he can't excape these indulgances, and the pathetic fool becomes a slave...funny stuff all the way thru as he make "co-dependncy" a dirty word! The T story is about something else. We know waht it is: John, Sarah, and Skynet. Cam reps Skynet AND the resistance in the future: she's the string that connects past and future. JC now is the other end of the string. Unlike Cam, he isn't anchored in his mission, even though he knows what it will be someday. She does. And we don't know fully yet - but we will. So no need to argue - all we can do is go back, watch the past eps again and again, and speculate. I can't see any (smart) scenario that would have JC involved in a sexual relationship with Cameron. If she did it'd be to manipulate JC for some reason present or future. If he did it be pretty pathetic: there are over 6 billion humans on the planet right now...certainly he can get laid with those numbers! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ChrisCoachKKincey	19. RE: What do Shippers want? Feb 4 2009, 5:49 PM EST \| Post edited: Feb 4 2009, 5:49 PM EST "BSG comparison is totally flawed. Because BSG Cylons = human. Human in every way that means anything. " That's true, but humans refer to them by a racial slur as "toasters" to refer to their source of origin: machines, not "Gods." Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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