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ChrisCoachKKincey |
"What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:27 PM EST
Josh gave this comment on the live chat today. It was funny at the time, but what it really does is give us some incite into the person that heads this series' production.First, his show is on the brink, and he's not really adressing WHY he has not tapped into this huge, big budget blockbuster of the same name, and ride the coattails to prosperity. Not doing this is a major tactical error. So he hasn't spoken to McG, and he also said he hasn't really spoken to James Cameron either. That's the glorious past and the glorious future all in neat bundle that he refuses to connect with. He also writes and produces episodes that have little continuity with the known Terminator Universe - and cares little other than using Terminator as a platform to present his ideas. he might as well be writing for "The Outer Limits" which would need no "backstory" - and certainly not one as well known as Terminator. I also noticed that he has a quick wit, but it is used to silence the questioner more than enlighten. Cameron did that to both Sarah and John in the series - she really didn't answer the question, but her remark diverted attention from needing/getting an answer. Call it bing slick at getting off the hook. He gave us mostly fluff, and a few tidbits that many posters here (shippers, unite!) tha will read far too much into what he *hinted* at, without giving anything away. Like he did with Riley saying she was a normal girl, or the major character that was going to be killed turns out to be Cromartie. I think he's going to get away from the know Terminator dynamics specifically so he can do his own thing with the stories, so TSCC may become a misnomer. Sarah may have her own sideline story arc like Ellison and Jesse now. I dig the series, but it violates many known laws of the T-verse Best to view as an alt verse timeline bc of Josh's ego. Do you find this valuable? |
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HawkDsl |
1. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:34 PM EST
"Josh gave this comment on the live chat today. It was funny at the time, but what it really does is give us some incite into the person that heads this series' production.We agree on something Chris. I kinda get the feeling that he wished shippers would just go away to tell you the truth.... He reads the "fandom-verse", but he's gonna do what he wants. A stop sign can't make you stop after all. Do you find this valuable? |
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Gusar |
2. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:36 PM EST
"First, his show is on the brink, and he's not really adressing WHY he has not tapped into this huge, big budget blockbuster of the same name, and ride the coattails to prosperity. "Actually he has. Go check out interviews from Comic-Con. (Or I can give you links, but I'm too lazy to right now) This is nothing new that there'll be no connection between TSCC and T4. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
3. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:42 PM EST
"We agree on something Chris.True that. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
4. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:47 PM EST
"Actually he has. Go check out interviews from Comic-Con. (Or I can give you links, but I'm too lazy to right now)Gusar, no it isn't anything new, but I cognited that he isn't the great leader of a revived Terminator movement to bring the franchise back to popularity - like what the producers of the various Start Trek franchises did. He has no interest in the history or the story of whatever happened or will happen with Terminator. He's interested in presenting his own stories and ideas, and Terminaor merely becomes a platform for that. I'd see that as a bad thing but he does have so many good ideas. Now, I found the source of what I view is the cause of my disdain for certain aspects of the show even while loving what they do. Understanding it now, I don't resent Josh for his effort (anymore). But I wish he'd just come out and let us know his real motivations, instead of being so criptic. It's misleading! Do you find this valuable? |
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warriormind |
5. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:48 PM EST
The T4 writers did visit the show's writers room, so they might incorporate ideas into the movie, but the show definitely won't take anything from the movie. Which is understandable, if Josh was faithful to the movie, then the endgame for the show would already be written. Whatever people say, knowing the ending to a story tends to decrease the suspense.Hey Chris I'm curious, when you say laws of the T-Verse, are you just referring to the character dynamic between Sarah and John or is there other things that are bothering you? Do you find this valuable? |
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notty22 |
6. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 6:58 PM EST
If you search the news area from google you get a mix of TSCC and T4 press releases and press conferences, if they are mentioned together this overwhelming theme comes up. The movie when asked about continuity with the show, seem to try to distance themselves TOTALLY from the show. Stuff like it has nothing to do with events going on , in the show etc Thats my observations, why they do that I don't know. Nothing on our show, hurts or puts any stigma on the Terminator universe. Maybe its because Arnold has never visited our set?
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
7. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:08 PM EST
"The T4 writers did visit the show's writers room, so they might incorporate ideas into the movie, but the show definitely won't take anything from the movie. Which is understandable, if Josh was faithful to the movie, then the endgame for the show would already be written. Whatever people say, knowing the ending to a story tends to decrease the suspense.Many things. I just wrote a bit on Ellison on the TSCC forum page (2nd comment) basically saying Ellison as an FBI agent with all the vids and files on Sarah would know that Cyberdyne reverse engineered the T arm and so would not turn over a comeplete body so that a high tech R & D firm could do the same - esp. now that he knows that JDay WILL happen. I personally think Josh ignores such holes, and just pushes forward with whatever idea he has and says to hell with continuity. That may be his personality. He may joke about it, but I really do think his ego won't let he get in comm with James Cameron and McG in a significant way. I don't think he wants to feel like a subordinate to them. I do know he is big on teasing and not on substance (answering questions his plot raise) - even after months and years of draggin it out (Cameron's mission, three dots, Jesse, etc.) I'm tired of being teased. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
8. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:14 PM EST
"If you search the news area from google you get a mix of TSCC and T4 press releases and press conferences, if they are mentioned together this overwhelming theme comes up. The movie when asked about continuity with the show, seem to try to distance themselves TOTALLY from the show. Stuff like it has nothing to do with events going on , in the show etc Thats my observations, why they do that I don't know. Nothing on our show, hurts or puts any stigma on the Terminator universe. Maybe its because Arnold has never visited our set?"No. Josh is the source of this, I'm willing to bet. That's okay, but I can't believe he's willing to ignore 25 years of history and 1 to three mega movies coming over the next several years. Man, that is air cover to ensure success like nobody's business. A Godsend windfall if ever there was one. But he keeps fragmenting the plot(s) and making it confusing on purpose. The reason for this is we already know what needs to be done - we just want to see it. Josh doesn't know what needs to be done, bc often he hasn't decided on which idea he wants to go with. So ideas are not "worked" into the story, they become the story themselves, and often bits and peices are blaringly out of sinc with the rest of it. So they become whores of convenience, and we are left out in the cold, wondering "wtf?" Do you find this valuable? |
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warriormind |
9. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:34 PM EST
I agree with you that Ellison's reasons for trusting CW are a bit shaky at best, but Sarah did brush him off, so he may have just turned to the next person who would believe him about robots from the future, and who didn't seem like they wanted to kill the human race. (She did ask him to teach JH morality)Personally I think the show presents a very compelling and realistic perspective on what these character's lives must be like. It isn't realistic that John and Sarah would always be single minded about preparing for J-Day for 20 years. That type of pressure is bound to affect their personalities. So Sarah's craziness, and John's emoness and teenage rebellion seem appropriate for the situation. I wouldn't be surprised if Josh actually contacted James Cameron, and he just didn't respond. James Cameron hasn't given his blessing to any Terminator project since T2 , this includes T4. So maybe its a good sign he hasn't said anything negative about the show. I'm more worried about Josh creating an unresolvable time paradox, but I think the writers are competent enough to avoid that. Overall, I think like any writer or producer, John wants to express his own vision of the Terminator Universe. I don't see it as much different as Christopher Nolan reimagining Batman's origins, even though it went against half century worth of canon. In the end we will just have to see how it turns out. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
10. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:37 PM EST
"I agree with you that Ellison's reasons for trusting CW are a bit shaky at best, but Sarah did brush him off, so he may have just turned to the next person who would believe him about robots from the future, and who didn't seem like they wanted to kill the human race. (She did ask him to teach JH morality)"In the end we will just have to see how it turns out." yup. Do you find this valuable? |
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LuckiiBeckii |
11. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:50 PM EST
i don't get where all the animosity for Josh is coming from. it was stated when the show was CREATED that it would be totally seperate from the Terminator timeline going on in the movies beyond T2. not staying in line with the movies does NOT mean he's disobeying laws of the T-verse, please. I'm very glad that he's choosing to do things differently because god -forbid he treated a 42 minute weekly television show like a 2 hour long action movie. i fail to see this "animosity" to the shippers that everyone's so enraged about. I think it's more frustration on his part that possibly this is what everyone's focusing on instead of everything else that's going on, and that shipping is going to work out eventually but because of his "stretch stuff along" way of doing the show, he can't really tell us much without spoiling us too badly. Less news must be better news in that instance. I don't think his "spurning" of McG and JCam has anything to do with a large ego. i think he's wellware that his platform and theirs is VERY different, and is probably in a place where any advice they give him he'd take with a grain of salt in a "you guys do the movies, come back when you experiencethe chaos of doing a tv show" sort of attitude. continuity is impossible in a show with time-travel. I agree with Josh there. XD give the guy a break. he's done very well considering! for now you might be tired of being teased, but when it's all over, you're going to wish you'd been teased a little bit longer. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Bobfr |
12. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 7:57 PM EST
Moreover CHris, the show and T4 has nothing in common : not the same producers, not the same writers, not the same actors — so WTF?!T4 is McG' pet project and T:TSCC Josh one. This is two independent projects. Not the same money, ok? Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
13. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:08 PM EST
"i don't get where all the animosity for Josh is coming from.I guess I missed that announcement. What I didn't miss was the name of the serises - Terminator: The Sarah Conner Chronicles. Well, we haven't seen her since T2, and that's all we know of her. We also know that the series would chronicle her efforts with her son (we know they are together by the end of T2) before JDay. There are lots of threads here and other places about holes in the plots or flaws or just plain boneheaded tactics by the characters (SC going into a covert warehouse alone with no one knowing where she was going, etc.). These are matters of convenience on the part of the writers and producers of this show, and they don't seem to mind letting the details get in the way of their story. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy what they do, but it does have flaws, which wouldn't have to be there if they did a bit of homework ON the Terminator storyline. That's all we have to go on, and this often insults our intellegence about Terminator: past, present, and future... I see this as arrogance. I know that no one is in Hollywood unless they DO have a big ego. I worked there, I lived right across the street (Olive Ave) from the WB studios and drank with many of the production people and bit actors on a weekly basis. BC of my activities I went to many fundraising dinners that industry VIPs and Celeb went to, and on occassion was invited to private estates for dinner. TV is viewed as the step-child of the movies, and I think Josh feels the need to branch out on his own. So much so, if he DID make TSCC a hit with their help he'd not get the full credit for his efforts. But he really could use a hand to boost the shows ratings, and he should have asked/pushed for this, even if he had to swallow some pride to get it. Only way to deal with this is as an alt verse timeline. Then it''s like a fan art display really well done. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
14. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:18 PM EST
"Moreover CHris, the show and T4 has nothing in common : not the same producers, not the same writers, not the same actors — so WTF?!No, but the same name - and both in the public view in the field of entertainment. From a marketing perspective, with one doing a movie - that is going to be heavily promoted and PR'd to death - and the other on a major TV network, you'd think they would play off each other for mutual beneift. Or at least have TSCC piggyback on T4 so ensure the TV show doesn't FAIL, which would be bad publicity right before the (sure to be a hit) movie comes out. Its called CROSS Promotion. Josh has spurned this, and thus is out on a limb by himself, with no confidence by the media and little support. Most have already written it off. But the smart money would have been to ride the wave that the entire history of Terminator provides, build a successful franchise, and spinkle in your creative stuff AFTER you have a track record. TSCC SHOULD have a 10 mil viewership, and anything less considered "what's going wrong." Instead Joss has chosen to do the creative stuff first, shun the Terminator logic that any fan of the story already knows, and do some emo/drama that is fragmented most of the time and confusing some of the time. To say the show is hard to follow is being kind: we can't follow it and we inspect every detail of every scene it seems. I've said it elsewhere: watching TSCC is too much work for the casual fan. My gf won't watch it with me for that reason. She can't follow the story bc all the plot fragments never wrap and are not only complex but lead to more questions. Do you find this valuable? |
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ChrisCoachKKincey |
15. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:24 PM EST
"Sarah did brush him off, so he may have just turned to the next person who would believe him about robots from the future, and who didn't seem like they wanted to kill the human race. (She did ask him to teach JH morality)"Sarah should have recruited Ellison to be part of the team, and could have used his knowledge of "the system," his resources, training and contacts. He'd make a good "front man." But she didn't trust him, and they are so damned secretive with EVERYTHING (they never even let each other known what the hell they are doing) so she slammed the door on any involvement by him. But he had no right to steal the body - and not expect they wouldn't find him and kill him for doing that. And JC's an idiot for not letting Cameron pull Ellisons fingernails out until he told the truth! And Cam should have "read" Ellison and reported that she knew he was lying - or went back and gotten the truth out of him w/o JC knowing. Do you find this valuable? |
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LuckiiBeckii |
16. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:25 PM EST
methinks someone is seriously and irrevocably nitpicking....is that blood i see? hate to be the bearer of bad news buddy, but no matter how much you rant, the show is not going to change for you. it's little "miniscule" errors are present in every.single.show.on.television. Even Heroes, which i thought for most of my first two years in high school was the PERFECT show has shown me it too is severely flawed. Truly loving a show is watching it and embracing it for everything it is, mistakes and all. humans are making it, not computers. It's not supposed to be perfect. I'd be kinda bummed if it was. Mistakes give a show personality. and was that...did you just say everyone in Hollywood has a big ego? Summer fanboys! I think he just called your girl out on that one! according to him, she's got a big flaming case of EGO! I'm sorry, maybe I just completely fail to see why this has got you so worked up, but I've gotten to a point where, nothing this show does short of killing Cameron would get me to type such long posts on what's wrong with it. Do you find this valuable? |
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LuckiiBeckii |
17. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:29 PM EST
and hey, maybe Josh didn't want to get involved with cross promotion because it'd get complicated, and he figured it was bad enough just trying to deal with one timeline, and not have to worry about shoving hints at another one in there as well.you think TSCC is hard to watch for the casual observer? TSCC is hard to CREATE. think about that. there is no reason the show should be dumbed down for the average viewers purposes. maybe your gf just has a short attention span. but the only people the show is worth writing for are watching it religiously and I can tell you right now, we'll be just fine. Do you find this valuable? |
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Pharazon |
18. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:30 PM EST
"I'm sorry, maybe I just completely fail to see why this has got you so worked up, but I've gotten to a point where, nothing this show does short of killing Cameron would get me to type such long posts on what's wrong with it."That, and killing John. I don't think that would go down well. >.< I'm fine with what Josh is doing. I love the show, and I'ma stick with it to the end which won't happen for a long long time!! Josh shoud have no need to include elements of T4, since he already has enough to keep us interested. At most he will have subtle hints to it in season 3, but I find that a little unlikely. I like the story and the character Josh has given us, so....yeah. =) Do you find this valuable? |
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Bobfr |
19. RE: "What's T4?"
Feb 11 2009, 8:44 PM EST
>"Or at least have TSCC piggyback on T4 so ensure the TV show doesn't FAIL, which would be bad publicity right before the (sure to be a hit) movie comes out.Its called CROSS Promotion." The show ends early April and the movies will be aired in summer. How do you want to cross promotes that?! Moreover promotion isn't Josh business, it's WarnerBros one. >"Josh has spurned this, and thus is out on a limb by himself, with no confidence by the media and little support. Most have already written it off." Josh was there first. McG came after. So Josh must change his plan because of T4? Why don't you think McG would need to change HIS plan? >"TSCC SHOULD have a 10 mil viewership, and anything less considered "what's going wrong." SciFi shows who are doing more than 10M are pretty rare! And "pure" Terminator fans are not so many to explode viewership. >She can't follow the story bc all the plot fragments never wrap and are not only complex but lead to more questions This is called "suspense". Do you find this valuable? |