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Aaronalxzdr
Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:22 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:22 PM EDT
...say that she can't be happy? That seems inconsistent. She cried in "Allison from Palmdale" because she felt rejected by the woman she thought was her mother. While her damaged CPU only made her THINK she was human, she reacted emotionally like a human girl would. Which suggests she's capable of doing more than just emulating human emotions.

Now in "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" when Cameron said, "I'm a machine. I can't be happy", she was (presumably) stating that she's incapable of any emotion because she's a cyborg. So which is it? It seems unlikely she'd only be capable of feeling sadness (who needs a Terminator on Prozac?).

I can go either way with Cameron having emotions. I just feel the writers should be more consistent...Unless...Cameron's unaware that she has emotions. Maybe that's what's going on.

Anyway, the fact that she reacted emotionally to her circumstances when she thought she was Allison says [to me] she's got emotional feelings. Which begs another question - What's worse, an emotional killing machine, or a killing machine who only gets emotional when her CPU glitches?

Tsk-tsk-tsk. Poor John Connor...
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Veran
1. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:25 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:25 PM EDT
"...say that she can't be happy? That seems inconsistent. She cried in "Allison from Palmdale" because she felt rejected by the woman she thought was her mother. While her damaged CPU only made her THINK she was human, she reacted emotionally like a human girl would. Which suggests she's capable of doing more than just emulating human emotions.

Now in "Mr. Ferguson is Ill Today" when Cameron said, "I'm a machine. I can't be happy", she was (presumably) stating that she's incapable of any emotion because she's a cyborg. So which is it? It seems unlikely she'd only be capable of feeling sadness (who needs a Terminator on Prozac?).

I can go either way with Cameron having emotions. I just feel the writers should be more consistent...Unless...Cameron's unaware that she has emotions. Maybe that's what's going on.

Anyway, the fact that she reacted emotionally to her circumstances when she thought she was Allison says [to me] she's got emotional feelings. Which begs another question - What's worse, an emotional killing machine, or a killing machine who only gets emotional when her CPU glitches?

Tsk-tsk-tsk. Poor John Connor..."
Because she thinks she can't be happy. Doesn't mean she's right about herself.
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Aaronalxzdr
2. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:38 PM EDT
"Because she thinks she can't be happy. Doesn't mean she's right about herself."
Can't be happy, as in incapable or not programmed, or can't be happy as in self-doubt?
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Veran
3. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:42 PM EDT
"Can't be happy, as in incapable or not programmed, or can't be happy as in self-doubt?"
Logic tells her that, being a machine, she cannot logically feel happy.
But contrary to this, she can feel happy, she just doesn't recognise it as such.
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ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
4. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:45 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:45 PM EDT
Because in AFP, she was running a program of Allison's personality. duurrrr. 0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    

Timeloop
5. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:49 PM EDT
"Because in AFP, she was running a program of Allison's personality. duurrrr."
The Allison component is always active but usually subdued . It is part of what she is.
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Aaronalxzdr
6. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:50 PM EDT
"Logic tells her that, being a machine, she cannot logically feel happy.
But contrary to this, she can feel happy, she just doesn't recognise it as such."
It sounds like she's unaware she has emotions and can feel happy, given the right trigger (no pun intended). You know, a happy Terminator could be as dangerous as a sad one. Picture what a bear-hug from Cameron could do to John. She'd pop him like a grape!
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Aaronalxzdr
7. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:52 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:52 PM EDT
"Because in AFP, she was running a program of Allison's personality. duurrrr."
What Allison program was she running? I don't remember that.
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Maria17B
Maria17B
8. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:53 PM EDT
I'm pretty sure she said it in a way that's like screw you John, you think I'm a souless machine, so there you go, I"m a machine, I can't be happy. But that's just me, I thought this from the very first time I heard her say it. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
9. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:54 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:54 PM EDT
"What Allison program was she running? I don't remember that."
It is implied that she had some sort of program function to act like Allison. her glitch just make her forget who she really was. At least that is the overwhelming majority's theory.
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ScotWithOne_t
ScotWithOne_t
10. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 10:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 10:55 PM EDT
"I'm pretty sure she said it in a way that's like screw you John, you think I'm a souless machine, so there you go, I"m a machine, I can't be happy. But that's just me, I thought this from the very first time I heard her say it."
I actually kind of got that from her comment as well.

Look at me... reading between the lines and shit.. it's like I have a soul or something.
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Aaronalxzdr
11. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:01 PM EDT
"I'm pretty sure she said it in a way that's like screw you John, you think I'm a souless machine, so there you go, I"m a machine, I can't be happy. But that's just me, I thought this from the very first time I heard her say it."
A sassy cyborg? LOL. I didn't catch that in her remark, but then I probably wasn't listening closely to what she said in that scene.
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Aaronalxzdr
12. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:06 PM EDT
This whole question came to mind partly because of things I'd read in other threads, and partly from watching BSG episodes on Hulu. Talk about emo robots! Geez, no wonder Adama hits that bottle so hard. Do you find this valuable?    

Timeloop
13. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:07 PM EDT
"It is implied that she had some sort of program function to act like Allison. her glitch just make her forget who she really was. At least that is the overwhelming majority's theory."
The mistake is to believe that there is an Allison program which is normally not present. A much more realistic model from a computer perspective is that Allison is running all the time but the influence on her behavior is controlled by a learning mechanism. That way both the Allison subsystem can evolve as will the non Allison subsytems over time and Camerons overall behavior will also evovle.
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Aaronalxzdr
14. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:17 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:17 PM EDT
"The mistake is to believe that there is an Allison program which is normally not present. A much more realistic model from a computer perspective is that Allison is running all the time but the influence on her behavior is controlled by a learning mechanism. That way both the Allison subsystem can evolve as will the non Allison subsytems over time and Camerons overall behavior will also evovle. "
Okay...my brain just told me to ask you to repeat that in English please. lol
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Swordsman422
Swordsman422
15. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:29 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:29 PM EDT
I'm convinced that even Cameron doesn't know everything about herself. She knows all about her abilities and programing that she needs to know, all that will help her accomplish her mission. There may be some buried abilities or programming that she doesn't know about after she was wiped.

I find it pretty shrewd of the writers that while they showed Cameron as Allison crying, having fun, and being distressed, but not eating or filling any other human needs. Food was just interrupted by the jerk, and the other needs, well, we can go several hours without having to fly the porcelain fighter-jet.
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Aaronalxzdr
16. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:33 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:33 PM EDT
"I'm convinced that even Cameron doesn't know everything about herself. She knows all about her abilities and programing that she needs to know, all that will help her accomplish her mission. There may be some buried abilities or programming that she doesn't know about after she was wiped.

I find it pretty shrewd of the writers that while they showed Cameron as Allison crying, having fun, and being distressed, but not eating or filling any other human needs. Food was just interrupted by the jerk, and the other needs, well, we can go several hours without having to fly the porcelain fighter-jet. "
You may be right. That would explain certain [percieved] inconsistencies with her character.
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Timeloop
17. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:36 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:36 PM EDT
"Okay...my brain just told me to ask you to repeat that in English please. lol"
Computers often run systems in parallel . Thus Cameron has a system governed by emotions based on Allison and other systems which are not. Actual behavior may weight outputs from these different systems and may vary over time . Cameron already stated she has human sensory capability and the feedback from that may create a human lke sentience in the Allision system . However the strength of the emotional experience may be controlled by yet another system .
If we take the I love you and you love me John sequence it may be the result of the control system ramping up the emotional Allison component to the maximum . In any case it worked since John did not destroy Cameron.
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Aaronalxzdr
18. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:43 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:43 PM EDT
"Computers often run systems in parallel . Thus Cameron has a system governed by emotions based on Allison and other systems which are not. Actual behavior may weight outputs from these different systems and may vary over time . Cameron already stated she has human sensory capability and the feedback from that may create a human lke sentience in the Allision system . However the strength of the emotional experience may be controlled by yet another system .
If we take the I love you and you love me John sequence it may be the result of the control system ramping up the emotional Allison component to the maximum . In any case it worked since John did not destroy Cameron. "
Sounds like artificial intelligence may be just over the horizon. Can you imagine dealing with a temperamental Windows operating system? That's going to make for some interesting 911 calls.
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tsigos
19. RE: Why did Cameron cry in one Ep, then in a later Ep...
Mar 16 2009, 11:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Mar 16 2009, 11:49 PM EDT
My theory is that John programmed Cameron to love him and to have emotions before he sent her back. Her love is so similar to the love that Sarah has for John. He realized that if someone (or something) loves another, they will do anything for them and may be able to override other programming. Do you find this valuable?    
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