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Discussion: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
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GermaricanMix |
40. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:08 PM EDT
"lol, what is realistic about this show?! its sci-fi man!That's my point. This show ISN'T realistic. it's why I the 'but he died so realistically' doesn't sway me. Ya, I dunno. Do you find this valuable? |
3_ducks |
41. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:13 PM EDT
"No, I wanted him to not get shot to begin with. There was no point. But if they HAD to kill him, yes, I wanted something more dramatic. I wanted his death to have some sort of meaning, to have some effect and emotional impact but it didn't. This show is not realistic. It doesn't even try. It over dramatizes everything and this one time they tried to be different and edgy they only succeeded in cheapening his death by having no one CARE. 3 minor characters got death scenes with an emotional punch, Derek got nothing. He didn't even get tears from John or Sarah later on. If I want realistic deaths I'll watch the news."well there you go...so it really doesn't matter how he died coz' you don't want him dead....John and Sarah didn't cry??? wtf??? they're in a freaking war...there's no time for tears...only time to get the hell out of there....there's a terminator shooting at them and the sound of the cops sirens getting nearer... how can you say Derek got nothing....isn't his death or the way he died the buzz on TSCC blogs and beyond??? you guys are just a bunch of whiners.... 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
thegalen |
42. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:15 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 6:18 PM EDT
i though derek's death was quite effective as it took the audience by surprise, which was the point. by the way, derek did fire a shot from his gun before he got knocked out. but its all cool. the death of such a great charcter as derek, my fav one on th show, is bound to stir controversy! Do you find this valuable? |
rjmatz |
43. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:20 PM EDT
"well there you go...so it really doesn't matter how he died coz' you don't want him dead....John and Sarah didn't cry??? wtf??? they're in a freaking war...there's no time for tears...only time to get the hell out of there....there's a terminator shooting at them and the sound of the cops sirens getting nearer...if we have to sit through bulls*** tears for jesse and rileys deaths derek deserves a better death. not to mention having to sit through 3 damn episodes trying to "redeem" annoying characters (2 jesse, 1 riley) before offing them, where charlie gets 2 seconds of slow mo and an off screen death and derek gets randomly offed and forgotten about and BEFORE we find out about that basement scene we were promised to hear about. 2 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DavidB1111 |
44. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:20 PM EDT
And they all didn't know it was a Terminator either.Well, Sarah, John and Cameron did, but Derek walked into the trap, and didn't except a Terminator at all. Seriously, I mean, was I the only "True Fan" who noticed this? Because that's bad...really bad... No one thought they would run into Terminators. Which is why they didn't bring 30 billion rounds of explosive shotgun shells... Which do exist, by the way. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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rjmatz |
45. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:24 PM EDT
"And they all didn't know it was a Terminator either.we get it, u liked the death. stop going to every thread that mentions it and mocking those who didnt like it. they arent trolls like ive seen u mention 20+ times and they still can be "true fans". Do you find this valuable? |
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DavidB1111 |
46. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:27 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 6:28 PM EDT
I didn't say I liked the Death, I'm just trying to figure out why everyone is throwing a fit and/or popping a blood vessel over it. :)Seriously, I couldn't care less how they ended his life, but still, I thought it was okay. I don't know, maybe I would have done it differently. :) Anyhow, I have to mow the lawn, so, if I'm not dead, I'll come back here and explain more. It's just that how can I be just about the only one who knew Derek had no idea it was a Terminator? Also, why does the letter u like the death? :) I call people trolls because it's nicer than insulting their parentage. :) Also, I call them like I see them. Oh, and I will admit when I'm wrong. Unlike some. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
DN38416akaCplHicks |
47. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:30 PM EDT
"Well I for one agree with nyccine. I know people are all taken by how Derek died but I am appalled. My friends and I all agree that it was pointless and dumb and lacked any sort of respect for the character. Derek grew up with terminators running around trying to shoot him. He's had to care for a younger brother. Now all of a sudden he just casually walks around a corner when he knows a terminator is out there? Don't mind me guys, just taking a stroll. I don't buy it. I don't care how realistic it is. To me it looks like JF was just in love with the idea of it being shocking and amazing and so fresh without realizing it was a bad idea."Completely on point - Nycinne & Germarican Mix. JF totally missed the ball on this. He did not realize that you already get the shock from the fact that Derek dies. Also there is the lack of closure from the Connor family perspective - Derek just looks disloyal and dies in vain. And actually that is how the scene is portrayed. Sarah picks his pockets John doesn't even shed a tear and they move out. I understand war, and I understand pain. But these characters are humans not robots. And Derek's death the closet thing they had to John's father and Sarah's only true love should have been that breaking point after losing Charlie and Riley (this affects John more I know). That would have been more dramatic and shocking to actually see Sarah break down and be vunerable. All season Sarah has been stone. Seeing Derek gunned down should have brought back images of Kyle and made her vulnerable. This is how I think Episode 21 should have went (short to the point version) They go get the Weaver kid Cameron gets knocked out Sarah and Derek get corned in together as John and the girl escape Terminator Waterboy takes aim at Sarah -Derek sees this and takes the bullet for her (knowing John needs his mother more than he needs an uncle) Do you find this valuable? |
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GermaricanMix |
48. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:30 PM EDT
"we get it, u liked the death. stop going to every thread that mentions it and mocking those who didnt like it. they arent trolls like ive seen u mention 20+ times and they still can be "true fans"."Thank you. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we're wrong, it means we disagree. I didn't want Derek to die. I think how he died was disrespectful, wasteful and a slap in the face to Derek fans. The show is weaker without him. My opinions. Agree or not, there they are. I've already given my reasons so I'll stop arguing now. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
AverageJo |
49. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:32 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 6:37 PM EDT
"And they all didn't know it was a Terminator either."Yes, that's a good point. In John's, Sarah's, and Derek's earlier encounter with the water cooler thugs, they were all human goons sent tby he Kaliba AI. Still operating under that assumption, they were unprepared for a battle with a terminator sent by future Skynet. And BTW, why would the Skynet term use the same bottled water company uniform as the Kaliba goons? What's up with that? Lastly, as has been pointed out, BAG himself may have asked to be written out of TSCC, and Josh Friedman simply complied by writing in a hurried death scene. Still, they could at least have managed to give it a little more emotional impact. Even if they wanted him to go down after a sudden, unexpected shot, using slo mo would have given that scene more ooomph. Do you find this valuable? |
Raingin |
50. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:35 PM EDT
I'm sorry, but the wiki the past couple of days has been acting really damn pathetic.If we're not complaining about the falling ratings, we're fighting about Jameron/Anti-Jameron. If we're not arguing over that, we're bitching about Derek's death (He died simple and quick. Get the hell over it, people). If it's not that, then we're getting all of our our panties in a twist about the whole 'leaked finale' spoilers. Even without all those things, there are people STILL blaming Josh Friedman for 'ruining the show.' Seriously you guys. Shut. UP. I joined the wiki because there aren't many people who like T:TSCC that I know in real life and I thought it would be fun to talk to the online fans, but instead all I get is a forum with most (not all) of its' members acting like they've gotten a glass bottle stuck up their arse that shattered. I doubt anybody really gives a crap, but I can foresee myself leaving soon the way things are going right now. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DN38416akaCplHicks |
51. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:39 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 6:58 PM EDT
(Cont'd)Cameron boots back up and begins to battle Waterboy Terminator outside busting through the house Derek lays dying (Sarah has flashbacks of Kyle because remember she already called him Kyle several times) Derek says he's sorry and he would also die for Sarah Connor -and then dies.... at this point Sarah would lose it ( hey she has not been exactly stable - right) She opens fire on Waterboy Terminator (as Cameron is battling) and begins to blow the heck out of it's head, screaming crying completely losing it (ANYBODY REMEMBER THE T2 BREAKDOWN IN DYSON'S APARTMENT) hELLO? people this would be a long time coming. Basically effectively killing the Waterboy Terminator. See closure, Dignity, And a real death for a Reese Boy, And we finally see some REAL human emotion from Sarah Derek is vindicated And you know what the whole story line could continue on from there - as it had all they had to do was write in another Terminator to come after the Weavers. GEEZ - I wish I owned Fox - I hate to see a awesome franchise being screwed with. And the real fans a bitching because we all realize how kick-ass Derek has been and he brings an authenticity about "the future" that was lacking from the show. Derek is basically what John should become - Edgy, Raw, to the point, just look at T4-Salvation clips does JC look like a happy camper or does he look more like Derek? Do you find this valuable? |
ShelterWolf |
52. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:54 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 7:00 PM EDT
"...Derek is basically what John should become - Edgy, Raw, to the point, just look at T4-Salvation clips does JC look like a happy camper or does he look more like Derek?"I agree. I was hoping Derek would serve as a father figure to John. Considering how the Dekker tapes are coming true it's just plain sad. John seems to be coming full circle back to T3, but 8 yrs earlier. I hope I'm wrong. I'm all for Josh's vision as long as it includes S3 and beyond w/ Fox Execs supporting that vision. Funny how Toni didn't want take the blame for that death, but she'll take all the praise for the rest of the show, won't she? It just seems so strange that Derek survived armies of Terminators and HKs through most of his life should be taken out so quickly and easily by one terminator with a handgun. He was cocked and ready, hardly a sitting duck, yet there he quacked. Do you find this valuable? |
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AverageJo |
53. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 6:55 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 6:59 PM EDT
"And the real fans a bitching because we all realize how kick-ass Derek has been and he brings an authenticity about "the future" that was lacking from the show.Derek's demise has left a big hole in TSCC, as you said - where now is their connection to the future war? OK, there's Catherine Weaver, but how about a human connection? If we get a season 3 (and, fingers crossed, we will) the writers will need to come up with another future soldier, one who might not be as well-realized as BAG's Derek. From all the fan feedback, it doesn't look like Josh Friedman got the effect from Derek's death that he was hoping for - some respond favorably, most apparently don't. About Josh's ideas: when he's on fire he can knock it out of the park - a real heavy hitter. But when he misses, he misses big too... 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
BattleJuice |
54. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 7:09 PM EDT
"Derek's demise has left a big hole in TSCC, as you said - where now is their connection to the future war? OK, there's Catherine Weaver, but how about a human connection? If we get a season 3 (and, fingers crossed, we will) the writers will need to come up with another future soldier, one who might not be as well-realized as BAG's Derek.I haven't read one review that disliked Derrek's death. Seriously, not one. Some people on the fan site are complaining. But really, that's just ether. Universally high praise for the Adam/Cain ep. 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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DN38416akaCplHicks |
55. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 7:33 PM EDT
"I haven't read one review that disliked Derrek's death. Seriously, not one.I did not say that Episode 21 was bad. It was actually great EXCEPT for how Derek's death was written. I loved that Sarah gets caught (again) - this is kind of getting played out...but it was good to see John and Cameron on the run. The scene with John Henry and The Weaver kid singing, especially with the burial site was well done. The problem is how carelessly a major character was handled after the minor characters got meaningful deaths. And I am sorry but this show is on potential life support and I just can't say enough about how wrong it was handled. I am a die-hard Terminator Fan, I have held my tongue all season man. I never said anything as JF took us to Sarah Connor Crazy Town U.S.A even though I know those episodes were painful for most. I did not say anything when Jesse (who was also well written and also a excellent idea) got killed off. But don't mess with my Reese boys. If you are going to kill them then do it right. AND I just remembered - HOW DID DEREK ESCAPE THE TERMINATOR INQUISITION??? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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ShelterWolf |
56. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 7:40 PM EDT
| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 7:41 PM EDT
"...But don't mess with my Reese boys. If you are going to kill them then do it right.Are you talking about the basement scene? That's still a mystery - that I was hoping Derek would survive at least until it was solved. There are some people saying that Derek's was a realistic death. Yeah sure, for anyone else. But this was Derek Reese. What happened to this intrepid, saavy soldier from the future was the equivalent of his walking into a moving train. A lot of people wouldn't see it coming, but Derek should have. Did he have his mind on something else? 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
nyccine |
57. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 7:55 PM EDT
"You see, this is why I know you weren't in the military, people in the military don't resort to BS 8th grade insults. :)Wait, you saying that because I use foul language when someone insults my integrity, you know I couldn't have possibly served? Are you serious? Do I have to put a copy of my DD-214 in the photo gallery or something? My God, you're like, completely 180 degrees off of reality here. I'm not freaking out; not about the scene anyway, but assholes like yourself trying to tell me how it really is for a soldier, how ultra-realistic this is, when you have no clue. None whatsoever. As usual, I am registering a complaint about bad writing. Even if we assume that real life really does work this way - and I'm going to type this slow, so you can follow - it doesn't work in a drama. Not here. There are certainly valid reasons why Derek needed to die in this ep. Perhaps BAG wanted out. Perhaps JF knew the series was over, and needed to get this taken care of. Perhaps he was just completely out of ideas on how to use the character (speaks poorly of Josh, but it happens). But you don't put in a main character's death just to shock people with "anything can happen, at any time!" This isn't a slasher fic; this is a drama, and main characters get plot immunity until such time as you can give them a proper resolution. Perhaps there is some series where this could work; in Cowboy Bebop, if Jet got killed by a random bounty, it would have made sense; that's the world Watanabe created, and the tenor of the show. Nothing like that has ever been established here, so when you throw the established rules out the window for shock value, it comes off retarded. Like a whole lot of this season. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
ajhil |
58. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 8:10 PM EDT
"... as I said before, even if it *does* happen that way, you don't do that in storytelling. This is embarassingly bad. It's like Josh just got around to realising that while he liked the idea of a Kyle substitute, he had nothing to do with the character."Derrek's death was pointless & amateurish, the kind of stupid stunt that someone pulls who has nothing to say & so flushes a cherry bomb down the toilet, to prove he can do something shocking. He was the second character in as many episodes to be erased in this gratuitous way. Did either death advance the plot? Did either provide closure or justify the character's presence in the series? The only justification advanced for either seems to be demonstrating that terminators are deadly & merciless. Who the hell was confused about this? What a waste! It isn't "daring". or imaginative, or creative. It leads nowhere & proves nothing. The virtues that made this series a hit during Season One have all but vanished. There's no point in reviewing the show's shortcomings. They've been discussed in other threads. Taken all together they've eroded my interest in the show until the only thing keeping me going was people like Charley & Derrek. Now that they've been expunged, I really don't give a damn what happens. What does the series offer now? More disjointed plots? More characters walking on & off to illustrate that life is abrupt & brutal? If I want that kind of realism, I can read or watch the news any day. In addition, if I can suspend my disbelief about terminators, time travel, a global, cybernetic intelligence, then I can damn well suspend it enough to accept romantic ideas about purpose & fate being what we make of it. Like Rosencrantz & Gildenstern, Charley wasn't even given the respect of an on-screen death. How sad & disappointing. The character deserved better & so do we! 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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BattleJuice |
59. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 5 2009, 8:11 PM EDT
1) there's no way Josh could have known if the show was canceled when this was written. Clips were shown back at Wonder Con, which had to be shot before the Friday switch.2) No one knows if the show is cancelled or picked up - period. TPTB are waiting 2 weeks after the final ep. 3) Charlie's death was OFF SCREEN. We never saw Jesse die, or even a body. I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, but it wasn't cheep. He got capped in the friggin' dome. And really, if you examine all of the deaths in this series to date, JF has strived for originality or against the grain type of writting. The FBI pool scene was all his idea, written exactly how it was shot, and unlike anything you've seen before or since. Do you find this valuable? |
