Location: Terminator: Sarah Connor Chronicles Discussion Forum

Discussion: Toni Graphia on Derek's DeathReported This is a featured thread

Showing 81 - 100 of 178  |  Show  posts at a time
Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next > Last
T666
T666
80. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 7:34 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 7:34 AM EDT
cont'd

I understand it's time for JC to grow up, and fast. And perhaps that means they needed to get rid of all the men. But why did they have to bring Charlie back, just to kill him off? Closure? To make JC hit bottom so he will grow up? Why couldn't they just have Derek go off and do those secret anti-skynet things that the characters always do? Kind of unfair for Sarah to indirectly justify his Derek's leaving the show as a matter of trust issues.

Other items include: Although it sucks that these guys died and the show is ending, I'm glad to see something actually happening on the show. Too many nonsense episodes and filler. A show should just have a set arc and just do a set number of seasons and not pull an Alias and just rehash the character arcs over and over.

I also wish the Riley/Jessie storylines simply never even existed... perhaps the show would still be around as well. I would have rather watched season after season of sexual tension between Derek and Sarah than that whole nonsense.

This is what happens when executives lose their way. This is what happens when the writers think they can toy with a story's logic once after it's been established. It's not cool to change the rules, rather it just pi$$es people off.
2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
TackDriver1956
TackDriver1956
81. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 8:17 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 8:17 AM EDT
"Yes, I am, one of those who said it was realistic. snip... I'm as pissed off as anyone. BUT this does not detract from the realism.
I would, for example, absolutely despise it, if they offed Cameron in a sort of the-T-must-die=canon BS. ... "Resurrecting" Cameron won't do. She is the once and future. No other will do; as this would be a total negation of the premise.
..."
Xynoxx,
Realistic my furry butt.

You couldn't be more wrong on the issue of Derek's death. The Clan knew they were walking into a confrontation with an Armed and Dangerous adversary, and would have been more conscious of use of cover. Derek had lighting fast reflexes and deadly aim, and if the writers were realistic, all his shots would be eye-shots, which would mess up either a human or T-888. I've also watched animals die of brain trauma... they don't just fall over and lay still... they have seizures and convulsions. So don't preach to us about realism. About the only thing realistic was Sarah cleaning out anything that could trace back to her or John. She didn't trust him anyway, and had already tried to ditch him.

The scenario for Cameron's backup and resurrection posed in the spoiler synopsis is quite plausible, and it's one that would take us away from reliance on "hardware damage" to explain Cameron's uniqueness, and also (and this is placing her in a class where she may not belong) place her in the 'net for a time, to influence developments there.
0  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
3_ducks
3_ducks
82. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 4:28 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 4:28 PM EDT
no....seriously....what's the debate all about Derek's death...did you guys forget what he told John about Cam killing him? if Cam wants him dead, he's dead....Derek was killed by a Terminator...so he's dead just like that...like any humans killed by a Terminator (in a flash)...a human being killed by another humans (fictional of course) will die in a human scenario death...more drama (like Riley's death)...... 1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
T666
T666
83. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 4:34 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 4:42 PM EDT
Maybe Cameron could be a networked Terminator.. nah, too Borg-like.

I know, maybe John Connor is the eventual reason humanity loses the war. And in the scenarios where John is killed, the machines actually lose... so maybe Cameron (and possibly others) are simply helping John to make sure he becomes the crazy loon that eventually leads humanity to it's end... and you know, since they are going for shock-value and toying with story logic and mythology, the only way humanity can survive is if Sarah kills John.. yeah, that's it ;)
Do you find this valuable?    

Xynoxx
84. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 6:38 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 6:38 PM EDT
"You couldn't be more wrong on the issue of Derek's death. The Clan knew they were walking into a confrontation with an Armed and Dangerous adversary, and would have been more conscious of use of cover. Derek had lighting fast reflexes and deadly aim, and if the writers were realistic, all his shots would be eye-shots, which would mess up either a human or T-888. I've also watched animals die of brain trauma... they don't just fall over and lay still... they have seizures and convulsions. So don't preach to us about realism. About the only thing realistic was Sarah cleaning out anything that could trace back to her or John. She didn't trust him anyway, and had already tried to ditch him."

Fine. If that's what you think, that's what you think.

Not "preaching". If it's raining and I tell you it's raining and you say it's not; I can't do anything about your powers of observation.

Nor would I want to.
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Meat_Cutter
Meat_Cutter
85. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 7:03 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 7:03 PM EDT
In war. death is often sudden and unglamorous. Derek died that way.

Friedman is writing a story. Who I am I to dictate to him how to write his own story?
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
ajhil
ajhil
86. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 11:42 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 11:42 PM EDT
His own story? Not exactly. This isn't some solo fantasy for Mssr. Friedman to take with him into the bathroom at night. It's a commercial work of fiction - science fiction, at that - whose purpose should be to interest and reward viewers. That means viewers can and should have expectations about logic, consistency, taste, character development, ... a host of criteria that distinguish talented writing from slop.
You may feel unqualified to dictate such matters to Josh Friedman. That's your prerogative and from your comments, I'd say you're right. But I prefer not to abrogate my privilege as a critical viewer to pass judgment on whatever I please, in this case, on ill-conceived and poorly executed writing.
What condemns this episode more than anything else is the fact that it has alienated so many loyal fans. Whatever "artistic" merit it may or may not have, it's a suicidal tactic for a television series (especially one at risk of cancellation) and therefore, for the umpteenth time, STUPID!
2  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
3_ducks
3_ducks
87. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 11:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 11:50 PM EDT
"His own story? Not exactly. This isn't some solo fantasy for Mssr. Friedman to take with him into the bathroom at night. It's a commercial work of fiction - science fiction, at that - whose purpose should be to interest and reward viewers. That means viewers can and should have expectations about logic, consistency, taste, character development, ... a host of criteria that distinguish talented writing from slop.
You may feel unqualified to dictate such matters to Josh Friedman. That's your prerogative and from your comments, I'd say you're right. But I prefer not to abrogate my privilege as a critical viewer to pass judgment on whatever I please, in this case, on ill-conceived and poorly executed writing.
What condemns this episode more than anything else is the fact that it has alienated so many loyal fans. Whatever "artistic" merit it may or may not have, it's a suicidal tactic for a television series (especially one at risk of cancellation) and therefore, for the umpteenth time, STUPID!"
yup..his (JF) own story (his show)....you just have to suck it up or rant as much as you want or not watch at all....you have different choices...no ones forcing you to do anything....you can say what you want...in the end, you'll still watch the show (or not) but the show will still be what it is....and majority of the viewing fans will be happy :)
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
ChrisCoachKKincey
ChrisCoachKKincey
88. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 6 2009, 11:58 PM EDT | Post edited: Apr 6 2009, 11:58 PM EDT
"I lol'd irl. Like storytelling conventions don't exist to outline what works and what doesn't, they're just shackles limiting true genius from showing itself. Gawwwwd. What a joke. You don't introduce random elements into storytelling because that's not the fucking point; you focus on these characters to tell a story, and the characters are only worthwhile if you can get the audience to invest in them, to care about what's happening and what will happen with them, and that includes a proper resolution.

Oh wait; "real". Holy Christ I seriously want to start punching people, with all this bullshit about how this is how soldiers die. I was a soldier for 8 years, and got to work firsthand with practically ancient veterans in some of the places I was assigned, including two Vietnam veterans. This isn't "real", this is "Hollywood real", the same sort of "real" that has every person in the world a colossal mess, addicted to something or another and plain miserable. It's ridiculous. If you turn a corner and run into the enemy, it isn't an accident, you walked into an ambush. The enemy knew where you would be (or at least knew where you had to go), and set you up. Random deaths happen to random people in the civilian world; you're in the 7-11 getting a slurpee just as some hood runs in to hold up the register; you're crossing the street just as some drunk driver careens around the corner and swipes you. Soldiers don't find themselves in those situations in combat. And, as I said before, even if it *does* happen that way, you don't do that in storytelling. This is embarassingly bad. It's like Josh just got around to realising that while he liked the idea of a Kyle substitute, he had nothing to do with the character."
I agree with you.

I do think if they were going to kill him it would have been just a tad betterif he spotted the T-888 and got a shot off first to the dome, but it just bounced off: shoot Glock (mm's at it isn't going to do much damage. Meanwhile the shot it fires back will take you out.

This would have given every scene more peril as small arms fire against a tank is not a fiar fight: the Conners might as well throw rocks at it, that's about how much "protection" they have in their hands.
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
BattleJuice
BattleJuice
89. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:04 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:04 AM EDT
"I agree with you.

I do think if they were going to kill him it would have been just a tad betterif he spotted the T-888 and got a shot off first to the dome, but it just bounced off: shoot Glock (mm's at it isn't going to do much damage. Meanwhile the shot it fires back will take you out.

This would have given every scene more peril as small arms fire against a tank is not a fiar fight: the Conners might as well throw rocks at it, that's about how much "protection" they have in their hands."
And it would have been like 100 other scenes before it.

Admit it, it was shocking.

Would you want to sacrafice the bad-assed FBI pool scene as well, because it wasn't typical.

C'mon people. Enjoy the creativity. You got Charlie getting shots off the week before. Mix it up. Take a chance.

Enjoy the friggin' show or move on.
1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
Kyrie
Kyrie
90. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:19 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:19 AM EDT
"Well I for one agree with nyccine. I know people are all taken by how Derek died but I am appalled. My friends and I all agree that it was pointless and dumb and lacked any sort of respect for the character. Derek grew up with terminators running around trying to shoot him. He's had to care for a younger brother. Now all of a sudden he just casually walks around a corner when he knows a terminator is out there? Don't mind me guys, just taking a stroll. I don't buy it. I don't care how realistic it is. To me it looks like JF was just in love with the idea of it being shocking and amazing and so fresh without realizing it was a bad idea."
Thank you! I completely and absolutely agree! And what sucks so much is that I feel so dirtied by how this was handled, like all of the time I spent defending this show and being so optimistic, it was for nothing. If JF can do this to Derek, who really isn't a major character, but one a lot of fans do care about, and in such a totally unbelievable manner, what hope is there? Derek would have NEVER come out of cover like that, with a T in the area, NEVER, and this is what Josh and his crew created, and yet we have to believe he would why?

I have never. ever loved a show as much as this one and now I am finally in the boat of many who see how much potential has just been pissed away, and for what?
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
A.Wells
A.Wells
91. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:32 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:32 AM EDT
Did anyone else notice that the Terminator's gun's slide didn't close all the way when it reloaded? Derek should still be alive. 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
ajhil
ajhil
92. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:34 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:34 AM EDT
"yup..his (JF) own story (his show)....you just have to suck it up or rant as much as you want or not watch at all....you have different choices...no ones forcing you to do anything....you can say what you want...in the end, you'll still watch the show (or not) but the show will still be what it is....and majority of the viewing fans will be happy :)"
Actually I intend not to watch the show anymore - I'm fed up with the incompetent writing - and from the ratings it's clear that a lot of initial viewers and fans have made the same choice. Want to see examples of good writing? Try watching "Breaking Bad." You don't see heavily invested characters snuffed there, purely for infantile" shock value." If Josh Friedman subscribes to your idiotic stand that it's "his show(!)" alone and no one else's business, then he deserves to wind up sitting in his bathroom reading unproduced scripts. Maybe you can join him there.
3  out of 3 found this valuable. Do you?    
GermaricanMix
GermaricanMix
93. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:35 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:35 AM EDT
"Thank you! I completely and absolutely agree! And what sucks so much is that I feel so dirtied by how this was handled, like all of the time I spent defending this show and being so optimistic, it was for nothing. If JF can do this to Derek, who really isn't a major character, but one a lot of fans do care about, and in such a totally unbelievable manner, what hope is there? Derek would have NEVER come out of cover like that, with a T in the area, NEVER, and this is what Josh and his crew created, and yet we have to believe he would why?

I have never. ever loved a show as much as this one and now I am finally in the boat of many who see how much potential has just been pissed away, and for what?"
i agree. I gave this show a lot of passes and defended a lot of writing mistakes when I watched with friends. Well, this is one writing mistake I can't defend and I'm a lot harder on the show in general now. It's disappointed me, now it has to impress me again.
2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
horhai
horhai
94. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:38 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:38 AM EDT
i will watch born to run and enjoy it 1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
3_ducks
3_ducks
95. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:51 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:52 AM EDT
"Actually I intend not to watch the show anymore - I'm fed up with the incompetent writing - and from the ratings it's clear that a lot of initial viewers and fans have made the same choice. Want to see examples of good writing? Try watching "Breaking Bad." You don't see heavily invested characters snuffed there, purely for infantile" shock value." If Josh Friedman subscribes to your idiotic stand that it's "his show(!)" alone and no one else's business, then he deserves to wind up sitting in his bathroom reading unproduced scripts. Maybe you can join him there."
you decided not to watch the show just right now??? the season finale??? right.....do it ....i dare you not to watch it and live with the BS if you do...it's your own BS anyways....if it's incompetent writing like you described it....why wait till' the season finale to stop watching??? you're starting to believe in your own BS while BS'ing yourself....lol
1  out of 1 found this valuable. Do you?    
Kyrie
Kyrie
96. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 12:54 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 12:54 AM EDT
"i agree. I gave this show a lot of passes and defended a lot of writing mistakes when I watched with friends. Well, this is one writing mistake I can't defend and I'm a lot harder on the show in general now. It's disappointed me, now it has to impress me again."
It truly hurts me to say this, but right now, I really don't care if they get another season, because quite frankly, I don't think that JF knows how to follow through with an awesome thing when he's got one. He has missed SOOOO many opportunities, and it's not just with Derek, but with ALL of the lost/dropped story lines and to be honest, now I don't even put it past him to destroy Cameron and even though I'm not a shipper, I'm not dumb enough to fail to see that is where the viewers come in.

I am so sad and yet, this is the exact reason why I don't get into serialized tv. Josh, my eyes have been opened and you ruined the best thing out there. I will not EVER watch another show of yours if you do not pull some kind of tv miracle and redeem yourself.
2  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
3_ducks
3_ducks
97. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 1:02 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 1:03 AM EDT
"It truly hurts me to say this, but right now, I really don't care if they get another season, because quite frankly, I don't think that JF knows how to follow through with an awesome thing when he's got one. He has missed SOOOO many opportunities, and it's not just with Derek, but with ALL of the lost/dropped story lines and to be honest, now I don't even put it past him to destroy Cameron and even though I'm not a shipper, I'm not dumb enough to fail to see that is where the viewers come in.

I am so sad and yet, this is the exact reason why I don't get into serialized tv. Josh, my eyes have been opened and you ruined the best thing out there. I will not EVER watch another show of yours if you do not pull some kind of tv miracle and redeem yourself. "
you Derek fans know that Derek is still alive in the future...no? so it means he can come back....will that make you feel better now???
1  out of 2 found this valuable. Do you?    
GermaricanMix
GermaricanMix
98. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 1:13 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 1:13 AM EDT
"It truly hurts me to say this, but right now, I really don't care if they get another season, because quite frankly, I don't think that JF knows how to follow through with an awesome thing when he's got one. He has missed SOOOO many opportunities, and it's not just with Derek, but with ALL of the lost/dropped story lines and to be honest, now I don't even put it past him to destroy Cameron and even though I'm not a shipper, I'm not dumb enough to fail to see that is where the viewers come in.

I am so sad and yet, this is the exact reason why I don't get into serialized tv. Josh, my eyes have been opened and you ruined the best thing out there. I will not EVER watch another show of yours if you do not pull some kind of tv miracle and redeem yourself. "
I have hopes for season 3, but my enthusiasm has really been dampened. One of my friends keeps saying - and I agree - they should really work with a 13 episode season cause that way they don't have to stretch material. The last 6 episodes have really been picking up speed and I'm wondering if they had a tighter time constraint if the pacing would get better. Look at season 1. They drop the ball on a lot of things. A LOT. So just because pacing gets better doesn't mean they won't waste great opportunities.

3_ducks - yes I realize. And it would make me feels ton better, I just don't think it's gonna happen. I could be wrong, the Angel comics pulled a stunt like this and I went from raging to glee in the span of one issue.
Do you find this valuable?    

AutoNine
99. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death
Apr 7 2009, 1:16 AM EDT | Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 1:16 AM EDT
I'm another who has to agree that his death was pointless. Do I think Derek should eventually die in the series, yes. But in Season 2???? What the hell guys? This is almost as bad as the writing on Smallville or Heroes as of late. Derek was becoming a great character, flawed but strong, and he was likable, and had potential for new story arcs and the like. I completely agree with some of the other commentors here. You have a guy who grew up fighting Terminators left and right, and he just casually gets popped off by one, I don't think so, that was just some crappy writing. Same with the deaths of Riley and Charley. I thought it was great when they killed off Charley's wife on the show, it gave him a reason to hate the Terminators and the future, he could have been molded into a decent, recurring character. But he just gets popped off saving John, great. And Riley, though I admit I thought she was kind of a terrible character in the beginning, but once we found out she was from the future, I thought she had some great potential after that discovery. I'm not saying I'm against characters getting knocked off as the show progresses, but not so early in the show., and not when they are getting to be decent, you just shouldn't do that.

I hope this was just some sort of late April Fools joke on the writers part, because stuff like that, if not done right (like it was not) isn't going to keep the audience around. Way, way, way too early in the series to do this.

I have liked the storyline, on a whole, thus far though. Killing off Cromartie and using his body for John Henry was pretty decent, and the whole John Henry character as a whole and his story arc are great. Is Weaver trying to make a competitor to Sky Net to stop it? Maybe Terminators in the future are just as much slaves to Sky Net as humans are, and she wants to prevent that but still keep intelligent androids around in the future?
Do you find this valuable?    
Previous | 1 2 3 4 5 | Next > Last

Related Content

  (what's this?Related ContentThanks to keyword tags, links to related pages and threads are added to the bottom of your pages. Up to 15 links are shown, determined by matching tags and by how recently the content was updated; keeping the most current at the top. Share your feedback on Wetpaint Central.)