Discussion: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death

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sayke	Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:34 AM EDT Alan Sepinwall's blog has an update about Derek's death: http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/04/terminator_adam_raised_a_cain.html Here is the update: ------- AS: I contacted Toni Graphia, who wrote "Adam Raised a Cain," to ask who came up with the idea to bump off Derek in such a cold manner, and she said it was Friedman's: TG: "As far as killing Derek, what I can tell you is that my boss Josh Friedman, whom I greatly respect for his instincts to "go against the grain" of traditional television, was the one who gave the mandate that Derek's death be true to life -- shocking, quick, with no time for tears. If I had even hinted at writing a big speech or heroic sacrifice, I would have been banned from the Warner Bros lot! LOL. Sarah's getting arrested was something I pushed for in the episode -- I was dying to see that "perp walk" and believe the fans would appreciate it too. Whenever something got cut, I would say, "as long as Sarah does the perp walk, I'm good." Killing Derek was Josh's idea and the way it was portrayed was exactly how he wanted -- the most realistic and therefore the most gut-wrenching and sad in its shocking simplicity. Yes, it's different than how deaths of main characters are usually portrayed, but to the credit of the Fox execs, they trust Josh's strong vision for the show and it has helped make Sarah Connor a unique experience." ------- This confirms it was purely JF's idea, not the writers'; and there are numereous cut scenes from the script. Also I found it interesting that TG said FOX is supporting Friedman's vision. What do you think? Post reply 24 out of 24 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: Adam Raised a Cain Derek Friedman producer Sepinwall Toni Graphia writer
Littman	1. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:39 AM EDT I agree. Dereks dealth was true to life and simple. He died a soldiers death-true to the story. Post reply 6 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zable_Fahr	2. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:39 AM EDT I think Josh was right. Imo they kind of neglected the character this season, but his death was awesome. It was honest, and very memorable. Post reply 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DeadpooI	3. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:42 AM EDT Derek's death was the most powerful one of them all. And yet it was the most BULLSHIT, UNDESERVING, and UNDIGNIFIED one of all. But it worked. We're not supposed to think "oh Derek's dead, but at least he got to strike an awesome pose in his final moments." Death is supposed to be painful, bleak, and merciless. I support what was done in that episode. It was a f**king kickass episode. Post reply 24 out of 24 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zable_Fahr	4. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:45 AM EDT "I support what was done in that episode. It was a f**king kickass episode. " Seconded. It was seriously badass. Post reply 9 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
iwishihad2000feet	5. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:47 AM EDT "Seconded. It was seriously badass." If there's such a thing as "third-ed", i've just done that. Post reply 6 out of 6 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
sayke	6. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:51 AM EDT I also think it was executed perfectly. Friedman likes to play with risky ideas, sometimes it works, sometimes it blows; it is what makes the show edgy, this time it worked.. I hope I can say it about the finale. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
TK-421	7. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:52 AM EDT I think the death of Derek was well done. A real shock and makes everyone stop and remember how cold and quick it can happen when dealing with their Terminator enemy. " and absolutely will not stop" and all that. I would have liked to see him go out in more style perhaps as someone as experienced as him should have known better having survived as long as he has. All I can say was my mouth was wide open in shock when it happened so Josh achieved what he wanted Post reply 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
VersusTerminus	8. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:54 AM EDT "Derek's death was the most powerful one of them all. And yet it was the most BULLSHIT, UNDESERVING, and UNDIGNIFIED one of all. But it worked. We're not supposed to think "oh Derek's dead, but at least he got to strike an awesome pose in his final moments." Death is supposed to be painful, bleak, and merciless. I support what was done in that episode. It was a f**king kickass episode. " My thoughts exactly. The death was both spectacular and craptacular at the same time. It doesn't surprise me that JF was the one responsible for this, he doesn't like to do things the normal way. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
TentoTwenty	9. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 10:55 AM EDT I with you guys Derek died it was quick it was surprising it was unflinching, Derek got terminated, I'm glad we finally got to see a lethal no holds barred Terminator kill scene, Derek died with a gun in hand, it was not dragged out and emo, it was real. It sucks but it was gangsta. Bout time we saw some of that. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
eXecutex	10. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 11:32 AM EDT DUGG: http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist Post reply 3 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Mark_A	11. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 11:35 AM EDT Its funny, as soon as i saw Derek die like that i knew that was Joshs idea lol. At first i didn't like it and thought it was too sudden etc but thinking about it it is more realistic. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Mark_A	12. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 11:36 AM EDT "DUGG: http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist http://digg.com/television/Terminator_Adam_Raised_a_Cain_A_shocking_twist" This isnt about the leaked finale is it? I dont want to click it if its going to reveal spoilers. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Canuckinator	13. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 11:46 AM EDT "This isnt about the leaked finale is it? I dont want to click it if its going to reveal spoilers." Nope, it's just a review of Adam Raised a Cain, and includes a brief interview with the writer of the episode (who gives an explanation for the manner of Derek's death). Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
nyccine	14. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 12:15 PM EDT "...whom I greatly respect for his instincts to "go against the grain" of traditional television..." I lol'd irl. Like storytelling conventions don't exist to outline what works and what doesn't, they're just shackles limiting true genius from showing itself. Gawwwwd. What a joke. You don't introduce random elements into storytelling because that's not the fucking point; you focus on these characters to tell a story, and the characters are only worthwhile if you can get the audience to invest in them, to care about what's happening and what will happen with them, and that includes a proper resolution. Oh wait; "real". Holy Christ I seriously want to start punching people, with all this bullshit about how this is how soldiers die. I was a soldier for 8 years, and got to work firsthand with practically ancient veterans in some of the places I was assigned, including two Vietnam veterans. This isn't "real", this is "Hollywood real", the same sort of "real" that has every person in the world a colossal mess, addicted to something or another and plain miserable. It's ridiculous. If you turn a corner and run into the enemy, it isn't an accident, you walked into an ambush. The enemy knew where you would be (or at least knew where you had to go), and set you up. Random deaths happen to random people in the civilian world; you're in the 7-11 getting a slurpee just as some hood runs in to hold up the register; you're crossing the street just as some drunk driver careens around the corner and swipes you. Soldiers don't find themselves in those situations in combat. And, as I said before, even if it does happen that way, you don't do that in storytelling. This is embarassingly bad. It's like Josh just got around to realising that while he liked the idea of a Kyle substitute, he had nothing to do with the character. Post reply 5 out of 9 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
DavidB1111	15. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 3:01 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 3:01 PM EDT Are you certain that Derek didn't qualify as a civilian because he wasn't ever in the military? As for you, well, stop trolling out of the book of Notty about this death. Hell, do you know what fragging means? :) Ask those Vietnam vets about it. They'd know. I'm not saying you're the worst person ever, but still more proof is needed then this sanctimonious madness. Post reply 0 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
camfan97	16. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 3:14 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 3:14 PM EDT Although I agree with the manner in which they killed him, I think the main problem is that its too EARLY! Its like an easy out so as not to do any more future stories and explain Derek's character. Now they dont have to show us a clip of what happened in the basement. They left him an undeveloped character with a storyline still in progress, the Jesse & baby stuff which was completely dropped. We didnt get to know what Derek was thinking etc. Whats the point of fleshing out an entire year long storyline to just kill it off. Now they can just say about Jesse and Derek, that both of them are dead and thats the end. Too early for something like this... Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Thecolours	17. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 3:20 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 3:20 PM EDT "Although I agree with the manner in which they killed him, I think the main problem is that its too EARLY! Its like an easy out so as not to do any more future stories and explain Derek's character. Now they dont have to show us a clip of what happened in the basement. They left him an undeveloped character with a storyline still in progress, the Jesse & baby stuff which was completely dropped. We didnt get to know what Derek was thinking etc. Whats the point of fleshing out an entire year long storyline to just kill it off. Now they can just say about Jesse and Derek, that both of them are dead and thats the end. Too early for something like this..." Jesse and the miscarrage was a dead end storyline. It finished running it's course. I'm not sure where else they could have gone with Derek's character. The only worthwhile thing he did this entire season was help John at the Acedemy in Goodbye to All That. What else did he do this season, that helped out the Connors? He was a likeable charafcter, but his story arc ran it's course. There usta be that tension between Camerno and Derek, but after To the LIghthouse, Derek no longer hates her as much as he used too. What other story elements is there to pursue with Derek? Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
GermaricanMix	18. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 3:21 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 3:21 PM EDT Well I for one agree with nyccine. I know people are all taken by how Derek died but I am appalled. My friends and I all agree that it was pointless and dumb and lacked any sort of respect for the character. Derek grew up with terminators running around trying to shoot him. He's had to care for a younger brother. Now all of a sudden he just casually walks around a corner when he knows a terminator is out there? Don't mind me guys, just taking a stroll. I don't buy it. I don't care how realistic it is. To me it looks like JF was just in love with the idea of it being shocking and amazing and so fresh without realizing it was a bad idea. Post reply 4 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Thecolours	19. RE: Toni Graphia on Derek's Death Apr 5 2009, 3:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 5 2009, 3:25 PM EDT "Well I for one agree with nyccine. I know people are all taken by how Derek died but I am appalled. My friends and I all agree that it was pointless and dumb and lacked any sort of respect for the character. Derek grew up with terminators running around trying to shoot him. He's had to care for a younger brother. Now all of a sudden he just casually walks around a corner when he knows a terminator is out there? Don't mind me guys, just taking a stroll. I don't buy it. I don't care how realistic it is. To me it looks like JF was just in love with the idea of it being shocking and amazing and so fresh without realizing it was a bad idea." If Derek would have known the Terminator was there, he would have at least gotten the first show off. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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