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Discussion: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC

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eXecutex	Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 4:46 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 4:46 PM EDT I was reviewing the page http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/page/Sarah+Connor+Chronicles+Nielsen+Ratings And I came up with a better way to test TSCC ratings... compared to other shows. See TVBYthenumb is comparing all shows based on their current ratings... but that's a horribly skewed test. Completely unfair to shows that are not on Monday or Tuesday night at 9PM... Though they compare shows on friday nights too, that's also unfair. They completely ignore demographics & TV networks... Let's face it, sci-fi is least watched on fridays. If we want an accurate test... we need to compare it with a similar show... Prison Break... great comparison. Prison break was also on Mondays for it's 4th season, and then it switched to fridays mid-season, almost like TSCC. Here's the PROBLEM... tvbythenumbers uses cancellation index, based on the shows "season to date". However, for some reason, they delete TSCC's ratings on mondays from this voodoo calculation. This is why Prison Break's "cancellation" index is 0.85, while TSCC is like 0.46. Dollhouse is also LOW for this very reason. They are practically comparing a full SEASON shows ... to MID-season shows with LESS episodes and different time slots. This is called cherry picking data to fit their needs. I also found an interesting article on Nielsen ratings: http://tvoholic.com/news/how-wrong-can-nielsen-be/ Anyway, I am trying to find a list of RATINGS by EPISODE for PrisonBreak, so if anyone finds this, I'll be able to complete a full analysis. Remember, Prison Break wasn't canceled for Season 4, it was decided to be ended by the writers. The story resolved itself. Prison Break compared to TSCC? They are about the same, TSCC has done a little worse from Prison Break, but that's only because TSCC is a much newer show. Post reply 4 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
eXecutex	1. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 4:52 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 4:52 PM EDT In fact, if we wanna get down to it. TSCC has had 9 episodes, season 1, at a non-lead-in-slot for time... this means, yes they got a boost from football, and created their audience out of that. But to be able to keep that audience was amazing for a non-lead in new show with VERY FEW episodes. Furthermore, TSCC Season 2, keeping a 5-6 million audience, which was basically ALL of their audience. Shows that TSCC is one of the BEST performing shows ever... Why? Because when Fringe premiered, their premiere got them about 15 million ? and then it dropped to 10 million. That's a 5 million loss, and it wasn't some "wrong audience" either. American Idol lead in i believe. The fact TSCC was able to keep it's premiere audience, is an indication that is an amazingly sticky show. By sticky I mean, the people who watch it, can't stop watching it. The mere fact that after a 2 month break, and a move to Friday... as not even a lead-in from anything...and the drop was only 5-->3.7 mil??? It means TSCC fans are better than most shows. I dare them to give Fringe a 2 month break, and then bring it back on Friday at 8 PM. Lastly, Dollhouse is performing horribly. It's audience is built up from TSCC audience. And it's driving them away and bleeding viewers like crazy. Dollhouse fans, in fact, some of them, blame TSCC for "Being a bad lead in" hahahahha... That's funny, because their TV.com rating is one of the worst ever. They're lucky they have a lead in, unlike TSCC has to build its audience off of nothing, and has done so forever. Post reply 3 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
ChrisCoachKKincey	2. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 4:55 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 4:55 PM EDT I have found that in politics and the corp world statistics can be manipulated to present just about anything you want to convey, it only depends what your agenda is. Good job on the data, keep us in the loop. I'm sure we're all interested bc we know TSCC is no where near as bad as ratings makes it out to be. How they clooct their data is WRONG, and what they do with that data I think is based upon supporting the premise of validity FOR their archaic system, not really providing any usable numbers. Like Canola oil, it is a made-made substance that is about as good for you as eating furniture polish, but they sell it to consumers bc it is cheap to make, and the public doesn't know any better than to fill their bodies with waste made for profit. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
notty22	3. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 4:57 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 4:57 PM EDT " Lastly, Dollhouse is performing horribly. It's audience is built up from TSCC audience. And it's driving them away and bleeding viewers like crazy. " Wrong... How are you dreaming this stuff up? What do you want us to get mad at Dollhouse now? Fail Post reply 0 out of 7 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Sully889	4. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:00 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:00 PM EDT It doesn't matter how you look at the ratings, they're bad. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
notty22	5. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:02 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:02 PM EDT I am glad you have a never give up attitude, but I like Dollhouse. I hope they get renewed. Post reply 0 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
stark74	6. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:03 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:03 PM EDT "Anyway, I am trying to find a list of RATINGS by EPISODE for PrisonBreak, so if anyone finds this, I'll be able to complete a full analysis." Check this: http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/248108451/m/826102851/p/3 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
eXecutex	7. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:16 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:16 PM EDT ""Anyway, I am trying to find a list of RATINGS by EPISODE for PrisonBreak, so if anyone finds this, I'll be able to complete a full analysis." Check this: http://pifeedback.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/248108451/m/826102851/p/3" That's from mondays though I believe. Otherwise we would have seen the drop in mid-season when it moved to fridays... unless ur telling me it moved to fridays and kept 99% of its audience, which would be a miracle. As for performance testing, I think premiere vs secondary episodes is a great litmus test. However, the lead in can be misleading. For example, if it's a normal show lead in, premiere to second episode drop should not be bad but there should be a little drop. If it's a football game like TSCC got in Season 1 premiere... a sort of "special event" then 99% guaranteed a HUGE drop... and thus the result: a huge drop for TSCC in second episode of season 1. Regardless, they kept 10 million people, that's still amazing. As for Dollhouse... I think the fact that it's not down to 2 million, is a plus. I think Whedon fans help the show a lot. Otherwise, I think it would be a complete failure. Regardless, with Whedon boost, you would think the show would get like 5-6 million and more, and not be bleeding viewers like crazy when there is no need to. We'll have a more sure knowledge, after TSCC finale. We'll know how Dollhouse really performs. Dollhouse should be performing great though... Eliza Dushku is very popular, and very hot. Whedon has performed a cult following... There's also a lot of action in the episodes... But I think the storyline is REALLY BAD... and Joss Whedon now has to JUMP the shark to save the show. And we will see the results soon, but they don't look good. I have no doubt in my mind that, Dollhouse will magically be saved and TSCC canceled. Opposite is more likely. Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
kingsteve	8. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:25 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:25 PM EDT While it's primarily a numbers game as to whether shows get cancelled or not; I don't think it means pure, absolute numbers, on their own. Potential numbers might count for something. The back 9 has been getting better and better, and if the writers can come up with a season 3 of similar quality to the back 5 we've seen so far - which has seen increases in ratings - then FOX would be crazy to just throw it away. It's numbers aren't too great now, but it's got huge potential to match or even surpass Season 1's ratings if given a chance to flourish. http://www.scifiscoop.com/news/terminator-the-sarah-connor-chronicles-foxs-potential-gold/ Post reply Do you find this valuable?
stark74	9. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:31 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:31 PM EDT executex: Prison Break will move to Fridays after TSSC season finale.. so there is no Friday numbers for Prison break yet.. wait for at least ten days.. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
eXecutex	10. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 5:33 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 5:33 PM EDT "executex: Prison Break will move to Fridays after TSSC season finale.. so there is no Friday numbers for Prison break yet.. wait for at least ten days.." Oh that makes sense... Well that's even better news... much better... omg... It makes me think TSCC is even higher in terms of "ratings VALUE" than I thought before I saw your post stark74. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
eXecutex	11. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 6:09 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 6:09 PM EDT Bump! Post reply 1 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
caeroe	12. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 6:33 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 6:33 PM EDT TSCC came in forth, repeatedly, on Monday nights. They didn't do well on Mondays, and they aren't doing well on Fridays. TVBytheNumbers may have the Renew/Cancel Index skewed incorrectly, but the ratings for TSCC are correct. You can spin it all you want, you can down rank my comment all you want, but it's true. The only thing that matters is Live Viewing, from the Nielsen ratings information. DVR numbers are generally irrelevant because commercials are skipped. Post reply 1 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
stark74	13. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 6:42 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 6:42 PM EDT "TSCC came in forth, repeatedly, on Monday nights. They didn't do well on Mondays, and they aren't doing well on Fridays. TVBytheNumbers may have the Renew/Cancel Index skewed incorrectly, but the ratings for TSCC are correct. You can spin it all you want, you can down rank my comment all you want, but it's true. The only thing that matters is Live Viewing, from the Nielsen ratings information. DVR numbers are generally irrelevant because commercials are skipped. " Friday numbers of TSSC is similar and not worse than previous shows Fox shows airing in same timeslot 8 pm... in live numbers.. in demo: For example: Smarter than fifth grader: av demo ~1.3, TSSC av. demo ~1.3... So, if Fox will renew those shows and cancel TSSC, it is unfair.. because TSSC has moreviewers on fox on demand, amazon, itunes, hulu, DVD Sales.. Post reply 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
nyccine	14. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 6:59 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 6:59 PM EDT If these are your objections, then you seriously have no idea why TVBtN does the index how they do it, nor how networks chose which shows to keep. One, you're flat out wrong about their index for T:SCC; they include T:SCC's monday averages in a note on their renewal index, but since T:SCC isn't on Mondays, and isn't getting Monday numbers, including them would artificially inflate T:SCC's performace trends - they're upfront about why they're doing it, and are not cherry picking anything. You'll note they do the same thing with "Hole in the Wall" in their unscripted section: it's been scheduled on two seperate nights, and has listings for both. Prison Break was announced finished by Kevin Reilly; whether the writers wanted to do that or not, I have no idea, but Fox most defintely wasn't going to bring it back, and in fact made public that they were trying to cut their episode order, but couldn't contractually do it. There is, for all practical intents and purposes, only one demographic used in primetime ad sales, and that is the 18-49 adult demo (CW head Dawn Ostroff is pushing her network to 18-34 females, unsuccessfully). So there's no real purpose in comparing other demos, though TVBtN does include both total viewers and 18-34 demo in it's daily listings, so you can compare if you want. In what should come as absolutely no surprise whatsoever, these other numbers almost always line up with the 18-49 demo. Bitching about comparing one night to the next doesn't cut it, since that's exactly how advertisers do it; a 2.0 is a 2.0 to them regardless of what night is getting it, so why should TVBtN do things any differently? Again, they also include the "share" in their daily numbers, and since that is based off of total viewers at that time, and not total veiwers period, like the ratings (cont.) Post reply 2 out of 5 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
BattleJuice	15. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 7:04 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 7:04 PM EDT "I have found that in politics and the corp world statistics can be manipulated to present just about anything you want to convey, it only depends what your agenda is. " I gotta side with Coach on this one. If the Fox Execs want to look at the bad numbers, they don't have to go far. And to think any kind of renewal is more than hopeful thinking, well, that's really all it is. It still isn't over. I'm sure there's quite a lot more that TPTB need to chew over. And there's time. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nyccine	16. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 7:05 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 7:05 PM EDT (cont.) the fact that certain nights just have fewer viewers is already baked into that number; there, a 5 on friday really is the same as a 5 on monday. "In fact, if we wanna get down to it. TSCC has had 9 episodes, season 1, at a non-lead-in-slot for time... this means, yes they got a boost from football, and created their audience out of that. But to be able to keep that audience was amazing for a non-lead in new show with VERY FEW episodes. Furthermore, TSCC Season 2, keeping a 5-6 million audience, which was basically ALL of their audience. Shows that TSCC is one of the BEST performing shows ever... Why? Because when Fringe premiered, their premiere got them about 15 million ? and then it dropped to 10 million. That's a 5 million loss, and it wasn't some "wrong audience" either. American Idol lead in i believe. The fact TSCC was able to keep it's premiere audience, is an indication that is an amazingly sticky show. By sticky I mean, the people who watch it, can't stop watching it." I have no idea what you're talking about here, and I suspect you don't either. T:SCC most certainly has not "kept it's premier viewers"; 18 million does not equal 3.5 million, no matter how many caveats you throw in. Fringe loses viewers because everybody loses viewers compared to AI; that doesn't matter. What matters is how many eyeballs (in the demo) are watching Fringe, and since that's a lot higher than the number of eyeballs (in the demo) that watch T:SCC, it can objectively said to be doing better. If you want to say that's all due to the lead-in, that's fine; I don't even know that I'd be willing to disagree with it. But it doesn't matter. The numbers are the numbers and the advertisers don't give a fig about anything else. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nyccine	17. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 7:13 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 7:13 PM EDT Some other points: tv.com's "reliability index" is particularly poor, as it is a measure of keeping an audience week in and week out. A show that gets 1.0 in the demo every week will get a 100% reliability index; it will also get yanked from the schedule in a heartbeat. You can dare Fox to all sorts of horrible, nasty things to Fringe, or any other show, and it won't matter. Fox made the decision to put T:SCC on Fridays because it was either that or cancel it. It's numbers were not going to be allowed to remain at the Monday levels, not with virtually all of their other scripted shows pulling in 3s, and American Idol coming in to boost their numbers all around. Frindge isn't going to fridays, or getting a massive mid-season hiatus, because their numbers are doing good and it's too much risk. T:SCC was literally in a "how much worse could it really get?" mode, and I don't think anybody expected the answer to be "very". Post reply Do you find this valuable?
HK-50	18. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 7:21 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 7:21 PM EDT "It doesn't matter how you look at the ratings, they're bad." And unfortunately, that's the truth of the matter. There's no silver lining to the ratings that this show has been posting for the entirety of season 2. They're awful and if the show is to be renewed, it'll be solely due to WB providing the incentives for Fox to keep it alive. Enjoy this week's episode, everyone. Don't give up hope, but at the same time, be realistic. Post reply 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Zkyire	19. RE: Why Ratings are Good for TSCC Apr 7 2009, 7:41 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 7 2009, 7:41 PM EDT "TSCC came in forth, repeatedly, on Monday nights. They didn't do well on Mondays, and they aren't doing well on Fridays. TVBytheNumbers may have the Renew/Cancel Index skewed incorrectly, but the ratings for TSCC are correct. You can spin it all you want, you can down rank my comment all you want, but it's true. The only thing that matters is Live Viewing, from the Nielsen ratings information. DVR numbers are generally irrelevant because commercials are skipped. " http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread/2532168/Fox+Vice+President+defends+TSCC+and+%27values%27+DVR+viewings+!%3F! Post reply 2 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?

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