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Discussion: Is Cameron the "Other"?

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R.Daneel_Olivaw	141. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 14 2009, 7:27 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 14 2009, 7:30 AM EDT "I really don't want to turn this into (yet another) flame war, but posted today by "someone": Whats controversial about it, because you put Lenaholics on one side of a arguement, what about Glaujobs, losers who faun over a 30 year old eccentric actress who read one line in some episodes. Who acted unevenly over the course of 2 seasons. Her character seemingly becoming less advanced and more shall we say "autistic" or just plain bad acting. No wonder Summer can't get any speaking roles."" Ok, Mike, ya got me. That guy obviously doesn't like Glau. Still claiming she is a bad actress isn't outright hatred. Maybe mild hatred, but not the sort of bilious evil that some seem ever vigilant for. Hardly vitriol of the caliber directed at Lambin and Jacobsen. Still I don't see this opinion of her craft as anything but honest, and certainly not banworthy. (edit) 'Glaujobs' and 'losers' is somewhat offensive, but still nothing compared to the names I have been called by Xynoxx. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IvyMike	142. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 14 2009, 7:44 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 14 2009, 7:45 AM EDT "Ok, Mike, ya got me. That guy obviously doesn't like Glau. Still claiming she is a bad actress isn't outright hatred. Maybe mild hatred, but not the sort of bilious evil that some seem ever vigilant for. Hardly vitriol of the caliber directed at Lambin and Jacobsen. Still I don't see this opinion of her craft as anything but honest, and certainly not banworthy. (edit) 'Glaujobs' and 'losers' is somewhat offensive, but still nothing compared to the names I have been called by Xynoxx." True, that particular post wouldn't qualify as hatred for Summer or Cameron, but as it was posted today it was at hand. I have however seen quite specific posts to the effect of "I hate Cameron" in the AJ thread, that was a while ago and I'm not prepared to dig them up; I don't read the AJ thread anymore (hurts my delicate J sensibilities). Of course I'm not psychic either, I don't know why those people made those posts but I'd hazard a guess it's more to do with the admittedly sometimes over-zealous Summer/Cameron/Jameron fans. Anyways, it's past my beddy-byes; as always it's been a pleasure RDO! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
R.Daneel_Olivaw	143. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 14 2009, 7:47 AM EDT " Anyways, it's past my beddy-byes; as always it's been a pleasure RDO!" And I'm late for work. Ciao Mike. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Xynoxx	144. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 14 2009, 8:31 AM EDT "^^ (edit) So, Xynoxx, can you give me your opinion of ResistanceFighter's avatar? I would say its more gruesome than accept's, because it is a human lying there in his own blood. Hey, its the head-shot derek guy." Hmm. Interesting. Last timer I looked Glua's human. That's her head on the offending avatar. Or are you one of those who cannot divorce fiction from reality? I've not see the BAG avatar; and I've not seen one with Riley's decapitated head. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Xynoxx	145. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 14 2009, 8:33 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 14 2009, 9:28 AM EDT "(edit) 'Glaujobs' and 'losers' is somewhat offensive, but still nothing compared to the names I have been called by Xynoxx." Let's see a few; and put in their context. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
sfomike	146. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 17 2009, 12:00 AM EDT A series in which the central character is continually confronted, challenged and transformed through life’s lessons is more interesting than watching skillful Skynet fraud. Compare how, in the movie T2, the governator simply obeyed orders “do not kill ANYONE” given by the orphaned John Connor and how, in the first season’s “Demon Hand”, Cameron used the Russian ballet dance instructor and her brother to find out what happened to the Turk and then casually walked out as mafia thugs rushed by to kill them. But later in the second season finale while raiding the jail complex to free Sarah, Cameron did not kill any humans, not even the attacking police. This response looked like Cameron had moved many steps closer to learning respect for life. The devastating and self defeating results of such a jail break discounts arguments that a Skynet Cameron was simply staying in character rather than having learned respect. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Trench216	147. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 18 2009, 4:09 AM EDT No, she isn't. The Skynet that attacked John Henry in 2009 was what I call "Skynet 2", meaning the world-wide computer virus from T3. The events of T2 changed the timeline, "Skynet 1" was a hardware based intelligence (a biiig old computer) hidden away beneath Cheyenne mountain, just like it says in the novelizations of the first two movies. After the events of T2, when Judgment Day was delayed and CRS inherited all of Cyberdyne's research, the idea was modified to a software based intelligence. This intelligence was active across the world's computer networks prior to Judgment Day MK-2, and it is this intelligence that attempted to infiltrate John Henry and sent Water Delivery Guy against Zeira Corp. What is intersting here is that there is interactivity between past Skynet and future Skynet: presumably, future Skynet knows everything past Skynet knows, and so future Skynet knows if any of its time missions came off correctly and is able to use past Skynet as a kind of forward observer in the past. Thus, future Skynet is able to target its time missions more effectively. Past Skynet is the "Other" that John Henry was referring to in that episode. Obviously. When the guy who electrocuted Cameron got instructions on how to remove her chip (he was too slow lol) and asked where it came from, and was told "My brother", this was PAST SKYNET he was talking to, Skynet 2, the network Skynet. Past Skynet had sucked the info out of John Henry before Mr. Merch could hit the main switch. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Trench216	148. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 18 2009, 4:18 AM EDT Furthermore, Cameron was either sent back by John, or sent back by Skynet. If by Skynet, then this is a massive psyop designed to get her close to John so she can twist his thinking. But that wouldn't require Skynet to go in her chip, even if such a thing was possible. Just that she be programmed to do a certain thing. Cromartie wouldn't even have to know, in fact it would be better if he did not. if Cromartie succeeds, Skynet wins. If Cromartie fails, Cameron gets close to John and Skynet wins. Very elegant. If by John... I had a very interesting thought: John seems to be using the past as a place to send people who have become a "problem". Think about it: with as much lip as Derek was giving past John about working with machines, who is to say he wasn't causing just as much grief in the future? Some things in the episodes point to this, like when future Derek doesn't want to send a machine into the virus infected bunker. He's bucking his orders, causing problems, and undermining John's authority. But Derek has charisma, and therefore the ears of his fellow soldires. Plus, Derek is John's uncle. So instead of demoting him, which John culdn't do without repercussions to the TechCom's morale, or sending him on a suicide mission of some sort, which John was probably emotionally incapable of doing, John gives Derek the "honor" of going back in time. problem solved: Derek is in the past where he can eat all the cheesy mall food he wants until J Day, and future John is short one disobedient subordinate who is causing a morale problem by loudly questioning orders as often as possible. The past has become future John's waste disposal dump for people in TechCom who have become "problems". Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Trench216	149. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 18 2009, 4:33 AM EDT Therefore, if future John sent Cameron back instead of another Terminator to protect him from Cromartie and/or prepare him for the new J Day with updated information that even Sarah wouldn't have, AND to jump them forward in time past Sarah's death by cancer (mentioned in t3 btw, I am assuming these are the same events of Sarah dying of cancer), it means Cameron is becoming a problem. Allison Young was obviously chosen because future John had the hots for her. And Allison Young was terminated so Cameron could take her place. Presumably, the deception was detected and she was reprogrammed into Cameron. Future John might not have been able to deal with having the machine that killed his girlfriend around him, and also his TechCom subordinates might have thought it was creepy for him to keep her around given the circumstances. Solution: send her to the past, his garbage dump for "problem people". This sets up YET A THIRD timeline in which Cameron stays with John until J Day, and afterwards, for 20 years. Past John never even knew Allison, and has no reason to be uncomfortable around her on that account. They get close in one fashion or another, which of course creeps out his TechCom people even more. She is, of course, the only person he can really trust for obvious reasons. In this third timeline, she does not get sent back again. This causes no contradiction, since Cameron is simply yet another refugee from a timeline that no longer exists, just like Derek was in the past. Say Derek came from the same timeline as Cameron. Cameron's arrival, plus Derek killing Andy Good shapes timeline 3, which is where Jesse came from. Not Derek's Jesse. Let's call her alternate Jesse. Things have gotten so bad that a group of John's subordinates usurp the time machines and send a girl back for him, realizing that he could only date a woman from the future. Twisted. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Ban_D	150. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 19 2009, 1:34 AM EDT Sounds interesting Trench216, but i think the answer is much easier - Cameron first went either to kill John in future and somehow she didn't finally (either reprogrammed or finally decided not to, just like in some fan-fic), or she was right about her motivations to Allison, wanting peace. (Referring to Catherine Weaver as '_WE_ want peace') John seems feeling quite comfortable in future to reprog terminators, while many other fighters are not - easy to see the point, since many of their friends got killed by machines, hence not easy to consider any other machine (or even same one!) as 'friend' even if reprogrammed. But due to the fact it was never explained why John sent back Cameron - but only a meaningful look from her when Sarah asks - probably John had no better choice, maybe as some thinks, he was died / dying even in that future timeline. I still think IF Cameron would be Skynet's 'agent' sent back, would be far more easy, fast and effective to simply kill whole Connor family once they are in one place (Sarah and John, probably Derek too). Would do it in a minute while they sleep for example. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
sfomike	151. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 19 2009, 2:17 PM EDT " Allison Young was terminated so Cameron could take her place. Presumably, the deception was detected and she was reprogrammed into Cameron. Future John might not have been able to deal with having the machine that killed his girlfriend around him," T 216, I enjoy reading your posts - Thank you for explaining. In previous posts people have mentioned that Allison Young was terminated so Cameron could take her place and that Allison was reprogrammed into Cameron. Where are you getting this? The only thing I have seen is Allison was killed because she went into a murderous rage against Jesse's manipulation and betrayal. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
R.Daneel_Olivaw	152. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 19 2009, 2:58 PM EDT "T 216, I enjoy reading your posts - Thank you for explaining. In previous posts people have mentioned that Allison Young was terminated so Cameron could take her place and that Allison was reprogrammed into Cameron. Where are you getting this? The only thing I have seen is Allison was killed because she went into a murderous rage against Jesse's manipulation and betrayal. " Aren't you talking about Riley Dawson? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
T169	153. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 19 2009, 3:28 PM EDT This has probably already been mentioned but I think the other was the terminator that was sent to kill off the safe house 4, the one that shot Derek in the first series. When John is accessing the chip, he overpowers it by mistake only for a few seconds but in that time the terminator may of moved its virtual self on to the internet as it was connected to it. It could of then layed dormant there until it located John Henry then attacking him. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
sfomike	154. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Jul 19 2009, 4:11 PM EDT "Aren't you talking about Riley Dawson?" Thanks RDOlivaw. Yes, I had the names mixed up. I checked on Wikia at http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/Allison_Young. Looks like I completely forgot the references to Allison in the "Allison from Palmdale" and "Born to Run" episodes. I'll enjoy catching up on these! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
notelling	155. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"? Aug 1 2009, 2:35 PM EDT \| Post edited: Aug 1 2009, 2:35 PM EDT "Compare how, in the movie T2, the governator simply obeyed orders “do not kill ANYONE” given by the orphaned John Connor and how, in the first season’s “Demon Hand”, Cameron used the Russian ballet dance instructor and her brother to find out what happened to the Turk and then casually walked out as mafia thugs rushed by to kill them. But later in the second season finale while raiding the jail complex to free Sarah, Cameron did not kill any humans, not even the attacking police. This response looked like Cameron had moved many steps closer to learning respect for life. " IMO, the difference between Cameron killing people like the boys in the bowling alley and not killing anyone in the jail break was because some latent programming took over when Ellison asked the question 'Will you join us?' She was either sent back by Weaverbot/John Henry or had some basic instruction from them or Future!John to forge an alliance between the human resistance and a metal fifth column. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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