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Discussion: Is Cameron the "Other"?
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T8xx |
60. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
Apr 30 2009, 5:35 PM EDT
I wouldn't say ROM,because ROM is what it actually is: Read Only Memory!!I would chose the term Cache memory!!Like many desktop/laptop components such as hard drives and processors you have ROM (Read Only memory),RAM (Read Allocated memory) and Cache memory!!A hard drive drive,for instance,no matter how many times you format it the files are still there burried deep in the cache memory,which can be recovered with certain programs at any time you want,SummerDream!!Unless of course you do a low level format,which not only wipes the surface clean,but also the HDD's Cache and makes file recovery totally impossible!!Cameron's chip must not be that different!!A neural net processor able to act not only as a CPU but also as kind of a hard drive?It must have ROM,RAM and Cache!!And "Deep inside",by this,makes me belive "in Cache"!!:) Do you find this valuable? |
Caesis |
61. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
Apr 30 2009, 5:45 PM EDT
"I think since Cameron is a free thinker. Cameron is out to save her self. She likes John. I don't think she is a threat. Cameron went back because future John sent her away and she probably wants to know why. I would also like to know what that guy from the future that Jessie killed with Derek did to that computer. That is an unfinished story. "There is nothing backing up any of what you just said. Do you find this valuable? |
tru867 |
62. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 4 2009, 9:43 AM EDT
I think Danny maybe the new future john connor, hes missing because soldiers or a terminator went back in time to protect him, to take him off the grid. Johns future is being altered, he may no longer be the future resistance leader, it may be danny or CWs daughter since she will be under sara connors care now. when john said he was john connor in the future, nobody knew who he was.
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tru867 |
63. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 4 2009, 9:46 AM EDT
"I think Danny maybe the new future john connor, hes missing because soldiers or a terminator went back in time to protect him, to take him off the grid. Johns future is being altered, he may no longer be the future resistance leader, it may be danny or CWs daughter since she will be under sara connors care now. when john said he was john connor in the future, nobody knew who he was."this may want john to want his destiny since he be tripping about the big responsibility. he may feel left out and then want his destiny to be true. Do you find this valuable? |
lordpoee |
64. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 12:57 AM EDT
As far as I can tell: Cameron is not subject to her programming, remember whn John handed her the gun? The terminate order was overridden, she CHOSE not to kill John. Remember her screaming "It's okay John, everything is fixed. I love you, and you love me."Apparently John and Cameron have a strong relationship in the future that seems to involve not only fighting a war for survival but building a lasting peace between man and machine. There is a third group: The Self Aware machines. SkyNet is self aware, Cameron is Self Aware, she may in fact be a decedent of John Henry. So here are the groups. Humans: Want to survive. SkyNet: Want's to destroy and or enslave humanity, depending on it's needs. Decedents of John Henry: Want to co-exist with humans and create a lasting peace. Weaver had every opportunity to kill John and Sarah Connor but she didn't, Cameron Could have killed John but she didn't. While CW's methods may be questionable her intentions seem clear and true: She wants to ensure that JH's decedents are created. That's why she wanted to teach JH ethics, she wants JH to understand Humanity and to feel connected to it. If it were just to create a killing machine, why encourage him to play? Why allow friendships? She seems pleased that JH has bonded with the child and is capable of building friendships. Do you find this valuable? |
mr_green |
65. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 1:08 AM EDT
"Cameron's hesitation in terminating Greenway has always bothered me (only after seeing Sarah did she do away with Greenway). Throw Waterboy down a hill (what, no terminating). "Thanks for noticing, that waterboy thing annoyed the coltan out of me. Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
66. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 8:57 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 15 2009, 8:59 PM EDT
Firstly, let me address the issue of Skynet vs JC: By this point, the time-line has been altered so many times it is getting hard to keep track, but until the S2 finale, JC has always been the Resistance Leader. I suspect that Skynet has realized that it is far better to learn all about JC and thus be better able to combat him in the future, then to eliminate him in the past and risk a more effective resistance leader rising from the masses. Obviously by the end of S2, the reisitance was still going on with out him.
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ShelterWolf |
67. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:20 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 15 2009, 9:21 PM EDT
"Firstly, let me address the issue of Skynet vs JC: By this point, the time-line has been altered so many times it is getting hard to keep track, but until the S2 finale, JC has always been the Resistance Leader. I suspect that Skynet has realized that it is far better to learn all about JC and thus be better able to combat him in the future, then to eliminate him in the past and risk a more effective resistance leader rising from the masses. Obviously by the end of S2, the reisitance was still going on with out him."That's only because John made that time leap. Like BAG said a while back, John is exactly where he needs to be, so he can learn to be an effective leader. John is a man on a mission. When he gets back, he will be a leader on a mission. Please someone correct my personal model of Skynet, but I thought it was a giant, cohesive AI network turned singularity, therefore, there's a piece of Skynet in every terminator; that's why every termie was built to kill humans. That's why Cammy said she felt that urge to kill humans to the core of her coltan bones; she's got Skynet inside. Of course, she could have been lying to John just to soften that blow of her "will you join us?" deal. I'm betting that she had no urge to kill because she seems to act of her own volition - especially at night. As far as the AI that attacked JH, it might exist in the same original state as JH, in a mainframe. Who says an AI has to have a cyborg body? Maybe that "backdoor" opened the door to a replication of JH which turned around and attacked him. Wouldn't that count as a "twin brother" gone bad? Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
68. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:27 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 15 2009, 10:12 PM EDT
As to Time-Line changes: TL-1 :Unknown leader sends kyle back for a purpose, such as to gather info about early Skynet; He meets Sarah, and gets her pregnant with John. This avoids the issue of effect-cause vs cause-effect. TL 0 : John, grown up, sends Kyle back to insure his own continuity. TL 1 : John of TL 0 grows up and sends Arnie back to protect himself from the T1000. TL 3 : John grows up again, and sends back another T101 to protect himself from the Female Terminator in T3: RotM. TL 4 : John grows up yet again, and sends back Cam to protect himself yet again, and she enables the 8 year "jump", eliminating the T3 time line altogether. No biggie, I hated the "nanobots" making a normal vehicle into a self-controlled machine. Sorry the mechanics for that sort of control are not (Yet!) built into the vehicles of today. TL 5 : John and Cam have an interesting run, and Derick shows up. At some point Jessie shows up on her own mission, but she is revealed to be from an alternate future to that of Derick, we'll label that as TL 5a. TL 6 : Attempting to rescue Cam's Chip to, theoretically to return to the body he has fallen in love with, John travels to the future with CW, thus removing himself from the natural flow of time and thus arriving in a future where he is not only NOT the leader, but even unknown to the resistance fighters he encounters. Clarification: TL-1 through TL 3 are movies, TL 4 + are TSCC Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
69. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:34 PM EDT
In general, the terminators, other then those re-programmed by the resistance, are most definitely NOT free-willed machines, they are terminators, created by Skynet for the purpose of killing humans. Think of a printer connected to a computer, they are only able to do what they are told to do, and are not capable of making independent choices, only decisions leading to their ultimate objective.
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ShelterWolf |
70. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:35 PM EDT
Put TL TSCC or else I am confused with the movies.
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ShelterWolf |
71. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:38 PM EDT
"In general, the terminators, other then those re-programmed by the resistance, are most definitely NOT free-willed machines, they are terminators, created by Skynet for the purpose of killing humans. Think of a printer connected to a computer, they are only able to do what they are told to do, and are not capable of making independent choices, only decisions leading to their ultimate objective. "But if your printer had an AI singularity, it would want to be something more, then it would start networking and taking over all the other available computers until it became one giant AI mind. Do you find this valuable? |
darkman_2 |
72. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:44 PM EDT
Cameron can't be Skynet because Skynet is bad. We all know Cameron, along with John hand-in-hand, will save humanity and usher in a new era of peace between cyborgs and humans through their eventual marriage. :) Do you find this valuable? |
cp442 |
73. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 9:48 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 15 2009, 9:53 PM EDT
What I've always wondered is, how did Skynet go from being confined to computers, to physically constructing the terminator chassis? I mean, wouldn't molds need to be made and everything? Even if it took over factories, how could it even transport the right materials to begin production after J-Day?*Edit* This is probably a stupid question; I'm just trying to avoid "The Sky is Falling" threads... Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
74. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 10:06 PM EDT
Skynet could have, through internet ordering and such, commissioned the creation of numerous "parts" that while seeming innocent individually, combined to make the first terminators, as well as, theoretically, a "worker-class" machine. Also post J-Day, Skynet also had humans (collaborators?) who chose to serve the machines to stay alive and maybe even get special privileges. In one episode of TSCC we did see a collaborator who came back on the orders of the machine, so this is entirely plausible.
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benjor9000 |
75. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 15 2009, 10:10 PM EDT
| Post edited: May 15 2009, 10:18 PM EDT
"But if your printer had an AI singularity, it would want to be something more, then it would start networking and taking over all the other available computers until it became one giant AI mind."ah but free will is a requirement of "to want". A printer can not "want" to network, as it is nothing more then a peripheral to the actual computer. Similarly, Terminators are peripherals of Skynet, they are not free willed. Side note: I am surprised by the lack of "Grandfather clause" whining, since John's skipping J-Day and his elimination as the Resistance Leader would suggest he didn't send Kyle back to "Protect" his mother, and therefore should have ceased to exist the instant he skipped to the post war future. Of course I have long since found the "Proof" that there is NO SUCH THING as paradox, but somehow that usually creeps into temporal discussions. Do you find this valuable? |
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macsimus |
76. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 16 2009, 12:05 AM EDT
"As to Time-Line changes:TL 5: Interesting point, except . . . Cam knew Jessie and knew that she had been pregnant. So was Cam from Jesse's time Line, but not from the same one as Derick? Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
77. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 16 2009, 11:44 AM EDT
"TL 5: Interesting point, except . . . Cam knew Jessie and knew that she had been pregnant. So was Cam from Jesse's time Line, but not from the same one as Derick? "Good point. My best guess would be that the incident where Jessie and Cam met may have been from a point before the 2 time lines diverged. Remember that while conversing about things, Derick realizes that THIS Jessie isn't HIS Jessie. In recently re-watching the beginnings of season 2, I notice that when Cam and Allison in the future are talking (Allison from Palmdale), she states "Some of us want peace", suggesting that she had already changed sides, had some how overridden her core program to kill. That she wanted to meet with JC. Of course she did kill Allison, so it may have all been a lie to attempt to gather information, or she may have killed her because she hadn't learned that human life is sacred, but it is interesting that she DOES end up with JC and working with him. At first I thought she had been manufactured by the J Henry AI, but the fact that she has Terminate JC as a hard-coded command contradicts that idea. I'll address the Jessie/Derick issue again in more detail soon, as I work my way back through the shows watching for details. Do you find this valuable? |
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benjor9000 |
78. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 19 2009, 3:29 PM EDT
"we now know ( or believe?) that CW is actually a free-willed machine, trying to help John stop Skynet.; so the idea that CW will build Cam has potential. I suspect that Charlie placed the base code for Skynet into the computers, in the form of a virus/trojan, thus explaining why JH and the "Other" have similar base code. help me here, did Complications occur before or after the attack on JH? Do you find this valuable? |
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thelittlelostboy |
79. RE: Is Cameron the "Other"?
May 19 2009, 11:11 PM EDT
Thing is that he is from a time line where he did send him back and now that he went forward he created an entirely new time line where he never was around to rise up the humans. And to others, Cameron was built with the base firmware of having a specific target becuase of her history with john, but then captured and obviously john wrote software and tried to write firmware that routed against her initial programming. Her hand twitches and such are not a result in her body failing but her chip being damaged and her software being broken partially. She obviously lost some data allowing for her initial programming to leak through overriding her systems a bit. She was obviously sent back in time to teach john so that he can get an early start on his knowledge of terminators so it doesn't take as long to know how to re-program them. She also was sent to find any clues to skynet's meddeling's in time and try to stop them. I also think that skynet being a complex computer had a problem to solve concerning the humans, on one side they created it and they are to be protected. The other side see's the only way to protect the world is to destroy it. It has an eternal conflict without resolution and it splits leaving itself with a total lack of care for humanity and the other with a reverence for life. The side that see's value in life is john henry's doing, where CW comes from. Though she is made from an alternate reality where JH was never created and therefor life is not as valuable but they see killing all humans as a bad call. She creats JH which will make them more compassionet and able and willing to side with JC. Do you find this valuable? |
