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Discussion: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay

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Gusar	60. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 9:59 PM EDT "This thread marks the death of whatever respect I might have had for Gusar." That one you'll have to explain now. Really, explain what is wrong with the post of mine you quoted. Frustration with DRM is not something I made up, it's a real thing. iTunes went DRM-free for a reason. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
IvyMike	61. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 10:20 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 30 2009, 10:22 PM EDT "... yet they sure as hell don't pay proportionate to their usage - service providers can't yet do a pay as you use formula, and even if they did it would be trivially easy to just leech bandwith off of normal users, and so the costs of bandwith production (believe it or not, it's not free) have to be passed on to the basic user who will never use the bandwith their paying for - yes, Virginia, every time you BT a movie off the Pirate Bay, you are literally stealing money out of my wallet. That the lot of you have the audacity to cry about this is absolutely disgusting." I don't quite understand this: maybe it's just where I live but my ISP monitors my data usage down to the last byte, and when I'm over my monthly allowance I get charged additionally. It's not cheap either; it actually works out cheaper to rent a DVD than to pirate the movie for "free". Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Accept	62. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 10:29 PM EDT "I don't quite understand this: maybe it's just where I live but my ISP monitors my data usage down to the last byte, and when I'm over my monthly allowance I get charged additionally. It's not cheap either; it actually works out cheaper to rent a DVD than to pirate it for "free"." Times are changing with this, the providers ARE looking to get more cost back for bandwidth than say 4 years ago, and 4 years ago they started a trend where they took out the words unlimited in their contracts. At first it was a unnamed "reasonable" number now for Comcast its 250 gigs a month. Which is still quite a bit, but a long ways from unlimited. I would say your plan is quite a bit more strict. But Verizon FIOS on the other hand is still unlimited , but for how long. I think the fact that TSCC could be had so easily by torrent hours after it aired cost the show live subscribers. And helped spell its doom. In fact thats why these DWTS , American Idol shows draw in the live viewers, they feel live and spontaneous and not as fun to watch recorded. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
transport54	63. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 10:40 PM EDT "Times are changing with this, the providers ARE looking to get more cost back for bandwidth than say 4 years ago, and 4 years ago they started a trend where they took out the words unlimited in their contracts. At first it was a unnamed "reasonable" number now for Comcast its 250 gigs a month. Which is still quite a bit, but a long ways from unlimited. I would say your plan is quite a bit more strict. But Verizon FIOS on the other hand is still unlimited , but for how long. I think the fact that TSCC could be had so easily by torrent hours after it aired cost the show live subscribers. And helped spell its doom. In fact thats why these DWTS , American Idol shows draw in the live viewers, they feel live and spontaneous and not as fun to watch recorded." Notty22, That's the first intelligent thing I heard you say in a while! @Gusar Don't frickin' sweat what people think about you, you were dead on. T54 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nyccine	64. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 11:11 PM EDT DRM was created because software producers were losing money (that joke about Adobe Photoshop showing up on BT ex nihilo and there not being a legit copy in existance isn't that much of a joke). That it was annoying as shit was part of the process - though I honestly never had problems with it; I don't think I've ever met anyone who bitched about it that didn't boil down to "LOL I WAREZ THIS SHIT AND IT WON'T WORK HALPS PLOX!" All of this is beside the point; you know perfectly well I said "thread" not "this specific post", meaning the totality of your statements in the thread. But of course, that's the point; the DRM bit is the easiest to defend - it's a claim that can't possibly be refuted (there's simply no way to pinpoint causation there), so you're free to say whatever you want about it without being called on it, so you'll focus on that, instead of the rather childish whining about how getting free stuff online is some moral imperative and bitching about how the founders of the Pirate Bay "didn't stand up for what they believe in" (people who devote themselves to theft cash in and make a buck, what a shock, I may faint from this). It's a tired, patently disengenuine argument, and I'd like to believe you know that, and you're just making whatever arguments you can to justify to yourself how it's a-ok to steal stuff from content producers, but I don't know that you really don't believe all that nonsense. But you know what, screw it. I'm not spending all night screwing around with the 2k character limit; Brian at Udolpho already savaged the P2P arguments years ago, I'll just link to him and let it stand: http://www.udolpho.com/weblog/?id=00407&title=How-many-albums-can-dance-on-the-head-of-a-pin Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
nyccine	65. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 11:21 PM EDT "I don't quite understand this: maybe it's just where I live but my ISP monitors my data usage down to the last byte, and when I'm over my monthly allowance I get charged additionally. It's not cheap either; it actually works out cheaper to rent a DVD than to pirate the movie for "free"." You might very well be the first person I've ever met that has this plan; in the US, and from what I gather, most of the rest of the world (where broadband connections are fairly common, anyways), it's still "you get a package deal", and prices are the same for everyone, meaning grandma who checks her email once a month or so to check if she got any new pics of the grandkids is, essentially, being forced to subsidize the basement dweller torrenting whatever new tentacle pron(s) is out this month. There's a lot of resistance to changing this, as anytime you tell Joe Blow he's getting less for the same cost (and they can't afford to drop the cost, bandwith isn't getting any cheaper, and the recession isn't making things any better) - even though he wasn't using anywhere near his limit - he's gonna balk. But like I said, even as the industry moves to a pay-as-you-play method, we'll see kids move to leeching wireless, one way or another, and until such time as the technology becomes familiar enough with the population at large that this can be stopped (trivially easy, but so's a lot of things that your mom and pop just think is hoodoo magics), you'll still have the problem of the biggest bandwither users getting a free, or at least greatly subsidized, ride off the rest of us. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
IvyMike	66. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jun 30 2009, 11:43 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jun 30 2009, 11:50 PM EDT "You might very well be the first person I've ever met that has this plan; in the US, and from what I gather, most of the rest of the world (where broadband connections are fairly common, anyways), it's still "you get a package deal" <snip>" (I don't imagine you're particularly interested but...) My plan is 6 GB/mnth (speed limited), I don't know for certain but I imagine because I live in a remote part of the world my ISP effectively contributes to the cost of oceanic F/O cables. It's far more than I need or want but short of going back to dial-up it's one of the cheapest plans. I dunno, 250GB/month for a home user, ie not a commercial user running a website might actually be encouraging pirating...? Guy at my work said that the tutor at his computer class told them all how to leech wireless... ETA: And if you're wondering how I know about the overusage charges... to offset costs I let another guy in my house feed off the modem, so his data usage comes through on my account (supposedly so he can email the old country... he must receive an awful lot of emails... ugh I don't want to know...) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
CamDer	67. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 12:38 AM EDT I never used The Pirate Bay. I used other websites. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Alexsw	68. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 3:50 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 3:50 AM EDT OMG this is so pathetic! Everybody knows piracy isn't right. Legal? Illegal? Shitegal! It goes not in englisch... know what I mean? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Gusar	69. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 3:58 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 3:58 AM EDT "1.) [DRM stuff] 2.) you know perfectly well I said "thread" not "this specific post"" 1.) Many who pirate apps like Photoshop would never buy it if the pirated copy didnt exist. They simply wouldnt use it. Its similar with me and the TV shows I download - if I couldnt, I simply wouldnt watch them. Either way, the industry gets nothing from me. Well, sometimes they do - thanks to me downloading TSCC and participating in this forum, I became a huge fan of it. And it is only because of that, that I have bought season 1 on DVD and will buy season 2. If I went the legal route, I wouldnt even have seen season 2 yet. Now, if they provided me content legally at the same time I can get it from BT, I would gladly use the legal service, which would bring them money. And the kicker is, what has DRM done to prevent piracy? Nothing. The cracked version still exists! And always will. The only one getting hurt by DRM is the legitimate buyer when interoperability issues arise. And they do arise. An interview with musicload.de I've read said that most of the customer support calls have to do with DRM interoperability issues. Some people get fed up with this and take the easy way out - p2p networks. 2.) Ok, I missed that little word, it was late last night when I wrote my post. And you write a total attack toward me because of it. Great job. So let me address that now: I gave examples about what changes TPB has driven. Copyright laws are not balanced, and they're not aligned with modern technologies. And the way the industry is going about it (suing their own customers) is completely wrong. One could see TPB as a symbol for a civil disobedience movement to try and change that. So when I say "what they've stood for" it is not about "getting stuff free" - it's about the movement to try to get the content industry to modernize their business practices. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Alexsw	70. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 5:49 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 5:49 AM EDT THEPIRATEBAY is dead, long live THEVIDEOBAY! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nyccine	71. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 6:39 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 6:39 AM EDT "it's about the movement to try to get the content industry to modernize their business practices" Which you have absolutely no right to do. You vote with your dollar; if the seller does not wish to go for your price, you have no right to take what you want from him for free. Period. Copyright laws exist to enforce the creative rights of the producer. I don't know what fantasy land you're refering to where "balance"(?) and modern technologies change the underlying rationale, but in the real world, if I make something, I determine how it is distributed - even if it were not in my best financial interests to do so. Also, "the way the industry is going about it (suing their own customers) is completely wrong"? You don't get to determine that. Also, you aren't the customer until you actually buy the product; contrary to bullshit claims by torrenters, virtually nobody who is downloading pirated ip's is actually paying for the real product, which makes sense - the only motive for doing so once you have a high-quality download is some sense of moral obligation, and - surprise, surprise! - virtually nobody does this. That's why I referenced the Tragedy of the Commons. If a good is made free, it will go away, because it simply cannot be supported under the good will of consumers; history has shown this time and time again - the incentives to become a freeloader and the disincentives to continue to be a supporter while others piggyback on your contributions are simply too great to overcome without the force of law. I absolutely wish there were a way for producers to track down and toss the lot of you in jail without the massive invasion of privacy necessary; you damn freeloaders are slowly killing the industry for the rest of us (and the more popular pirating gets, the faster it collapses), and your childish sense of entitlement makes it all the more disgusting. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
nyccine	72. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 6:41 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 6:41 AM EDT "One could see TPB as a symbol for a civil disobedience movement to try and change that" One would then be a liar, fabricating whatever flimsy justification they could to rationalize away theft for their own benefit. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
nyccine	73. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 6:52 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 6:52 AM EDT "(I don't imagine you're particularly interested but...) My plan is 6 GB/mnth (speed limited), I don't know for certain but I imagine because I live in a remote part of the world my ISP effectively contributes to the cost of oceanic F/O cables. It's far more than I need or want but short of going back to dial-up it's one of the cheapest plans." These are the magic words - you wouldn't ever use that much but you still have to pay for it because some other users are soaking that much, but the only way for the company to break even on the deal is to charge you all for what the torrenters (and other P2P) users are consuming - obviously, you could get what you use at a lower cost (since you simply aren't using what you are paying for). Your ISP relies on the assumption that the majority of its customers won't get to that cap - even though they are giving you the potential to do so - to offset the losses from people that would. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
Myrrdin	74. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 6:56 AM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 6:56 AM EDT One word...SELLOUTS Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DavidB1111	75. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 12:19 PM EDT This is a bit disappointing. 2009 is the year of the suck. Seriously. To Nyccine, while I do understand your points, you're in the wrong thread to show it. :) Seriously, by a factor of fifty, this is the wrong thread. You're supposed to be posting in the Hahahaha, Die, Pirate's Bay thread. :) Maybe I'm joking, but still...wrong thread. Anyhow, it's a good thing I don't use it that much. Oh, well, off to grab some comics....before the end of the end. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Gusar	76. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 1:09 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 1:09 PM EDT http://torrentfreak.com/suspicions-of-insider-trading-surround-pirate-bay-buyers-090701/ Comment 5 Post reply Do you find this valuable?
high0ctane	77. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 1:21 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 1:21 PM EDT It`s working again. I just watching the new episode of "weeds". But don`t tell where i got it from. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Birdman117	78. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 2:34 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 2:42 PM EDT A friend of mine brought up a good point that if TPB starts charging for downloads, it might also start charging sites like Mininova, which 99% of its torrents are TPB torrents. I don't think Mininova would actually pay the money, so that site could go under as well. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Birdman117	79. RE: OT: R.I.P The Pirate Bay Jul 1 2009, 7:32 PM EDT \| Post edited: Jul 1 2009, 7:32 PM EDT People are pissed about the sell out of TPB. http://www.pcworld.com/article/167667/pirate_bay_users_jump_ship_over_site_sale.html Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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