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Discussion: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?Reported This is a featured thread

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Mike70056
Mike70056
400. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 6:48 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 6:48 PM EDT
"Remember that skynet is not goung to employ countermeasures against a Russian attack. It goaded them into attacking in the first place."
In 2011, Skynet might be controlling the Russian counterattack itself. To do so optimizes Skynet's efficiency and survivability.

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Mike70056
Mike70056
401. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 6:49 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 6:49 PM EDT
"The computers that Fishcer infected with the Virus are used for analyzing buildings and infrastructure / bridges .performance in Earthquake and other natural and (unnatural probably) scenarios. Skynet would probably leave itself in the newest best constructed buildings built to withstand earthquakes. It probably runs scenarios about bomb placement. I believe thats what a lot of current super computers are used for right now. They analyze the weather and potential fallout spreading information constantly."
Word.
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The_GodfatherSJP
The_GodfatherSJP
402. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 6:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 6:50 PM EDT
Actually, I'm not upset at all.

Cameron's referencing the MAD policy of both countries annihilating each other in a nuclear exchange. Doesn't matter if that's what would happen in real life. That's what happens in the story as he wrote it. Skynet attacks Russia, Russia attacks back, and what we knew publicly was that Russia would have plenty of time to detect and launch a counterattack before our missiles hit home. Cameron had the same knowledge as your typical American in the 80's and 90's.

So in his story, Russia does have the ability to strike back and annihilate America in response. That's the framework you have to work around when you argue in this universe.

Obviously in real life that's not the case. But we're not debating real life. We're debating what happens in this story universe.
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Mike70056
Mike70056
403. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 6:55 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 6:55 PM EDT
"Actually, I'm not upset at all.

Cameron's referencing the MAD policy of both countries annihilating each other in a nuclear exchange. Doesn't matter if that's what would happen in real life. That's what happens in the story as he wrote it. Skynet attacks Russia, Russia attacks back, and what we knew publicly was that Russia would have plenty of time to detect and launch a counterattack before our missiles hit home. Cameron had the same knowledge as your typical American in the 80's and 90's.

So in his story, Russia does have the ability to strike back and annihilate America in response. That's the framework you have to work around when you argue in this universe.

Obviously in real life that's not the case. But we're not debating real life. We're debating what happens in this story universe."
Cameron's reference point might be debatable. The counterattack is what Sarah believed and taught John, thus it might be what Cameron quotes, after she is scrubbed and is reprogrammed by John.

Skynet wouldn't put too much information in a disposible drone, there is no reason too. Only Skynet would know the full picture, even as story cannon, via movie or TSCC.
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The_GodfatherSJP
The_GodfatherSJP
404. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 6:57 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 6:57 PM EDT
"Cameron's reference point might be debatable. The counterattack is what Sarah believed and taught John, thus it might be what Cameron quotes, after she is scrubbed and is reprogrammed by John.
"
Actually it's what the Arnold Terminator tells Sarah and John when they're in the car driving to Enrique's in T-2.

Cameron needs to explain what happens to Sarah (and by extension the audience), hence why we see Arnold giving all this exposition to the audience.
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Mike70056
Mike70056
405. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:01 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:01 PM EDT
"Actually it's what the Arnold Terminator tells Sarah and John when they're in the car driving to Enrique's in T-2.

Cameron needs to explain what happens to Sarah (and by extension the audience), hence why we see Arnold giving all this exposition to the audience."
Then he's talking about the original nuclear attack in 1997, not 2011.
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The_GodfatherSJP
The_GodfatherSJP
406. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:07 PM EDT
Ah, good point.

But I doubt the writers looked into Russia's actual nuclear capability when they were writing TSCC as well. Skynet gets control of the nukes worldwide and blows up everything. That still happens in T3 and T4 too. We hit the world and the world hits back.
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Mike70056
Mike70056
407. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:10 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:10 PM EDT
"Ah, good point.

But I doubt the writers looked into Russia's actual nuclear capability when they were writing TSCC as well. Skynet gets control of the nukes worldwide and blows up everything. That still happens in T3 and T4 too. We hit the world and the world hits back."
Skynet gets to pick the targets from both sides, the yeilds, and gets to hide while it builds its army. Its actions give it a post JD world that doesn't know it was hit by metal and not other nations. Thus, the machines have time to rise afterwards.
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R.Daneel_Olivaw
R.Daneel_Olivaw
408. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:13 PM EDT
You guys are confusing me. In any given post I'm not sure if you are talking about James Cameron or Cameron Phillips. Do you find this valuable?    
Mike70056
Mike70056
409. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:15 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:15 PM EDT
"You guys are confusing me. In any given post I'm not sure if you are talking about James Cameron or Cameron Phillips."
Mostly James Cameron.
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The_GodfatherSJP
The_GodfatherSJP
410. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 7:19 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 7:19 PM EDT
Here, in this thread, I've been talking about James Cameron. Do you find this valuable?    
intrepid
intrepid
411. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 8:07 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 8:07 PM EDT
I'm coming late to the argument but here's something to consider regarding military personnel post JD.

Assuming that ships at sea escape being nuked, whole fleets even, what do you think they might do?
Head for the nearest safe port? Assume “correctly” they are at war, with Russia? Go for payback?
And what about the troops in Afghanistan and other places which I would think also didn't get nuked.
There's no command and control, no supplies coming, what do they do?

The modern world has made us helpless, food comes from the fridge and the supermarket, pills from the chemist,(drug-store) we are generally overweight, unhealthy, and dependent on technology.

After JD vast loads of people would die from radiation poising and starvation, those who are dependent on medicines or the elderly or very young would die or have a high mortality rate.
People would kill people just for food!

Without supplies any intact military units would fall apart, and thats even assuming there wasn't a high desertion rate from people trying to get home to find out about their family's.
And those stuck overseas would have to fend for themselves in now hostile country's.

And just think about something as simple as a pair of glasses, how many of you wear them?
I do, and if they broke or I lost them or needed a stronger prescription I wouldn't get them after JD; I'd be screwed!
It wouldn't matter if I was an ex SAS trained super-soldier, without glasses I'm as blind as a bat and totally helpless, and most people in their thirty's need glasses.

After JD, even a person who is trained and armed, is in the same boat as everyone else in a world where it's now literally dog eat dog.

And that's before the Terminators show up!
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bryan011
bryan011
412. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 10:05 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 10:05 PM EDT
"Actually, I'm not upset at all.

Cameron's referencing the MAD policy of both countries annihilating each other in a nuclear exchange. Doesn't matter if that's what would happen in real life. That's what happens in the story as he wrote it. Skynet attacks Russia, Russia attacks back, and what we knew publicly was that Russia would have plenty of time to detect and launch a counterattack before our missiles hit home. Cameron had the same knowledge as your typical American in the 80's and 90's.

So in his story, Russia does have the ability to strike back and annihilate America in response. That's the framework you have to work around when you argue in this universe.

Obviously in real life that's not the case. But we're not debating real life. We're debating what happens in this story universe."
We're both talking about different things now.

T1/2 is what you're talking about.

TSCC is what I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Russian military is a (pale) shadow of its former self. Even with Putin (and Medvedev) it's still a disaster with exception to some elite units. Since the show was written in 2007 I am assuming the decline of Soviet/Russian military power is taken into consideration.

Additionally the quite considerable numbers of nuclear weapons we no longer posses would be taken into consideration as well.

Saying "billionS" would have been better since it opens it up to longevity. If in 1984 Kyle Reese said "half the world's population died"... well, that's 3 billion then. That's not 3.5 billion. Exact numbers when dealing with changing circumstances leads to situations like this.

And how does Skynet get control of Russian nukes? I'm pretty sure the system is not hackable- isn't it closed?
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Mike70056
Mike70056
413. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 23 2009, 10:13 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 23 2009, 10:54 PM EDT
"We're both talking about different things now.

T1/2 is what you're talking about.

TSCC is what I'm talking about. Everyone knows the Russian military is a (pale) shadow of its former self. Even with Putin (and Medvedev) it's still a disaster with exception to some elite units. Since the show was written in 2007 I am assuming the decline of Soviet/Russian military power is taken into consideration.

Additionally the quite considerable numbers of nuclear weapons we no longer posses would be taken into consideration as well.

Saying "billionS" would have been better since it opens it up to longevity. If in 1984 Kyle Reese said "half the world's population died"... well, that's 3 billion then. That's not 3.5 billion. Exact numbers when dealing with changing circumstances leads to situations like this.

And how does Skynet get control of Russian nukes? I'm pretty sure the system is not hackable- isn't it closed?"
It could simply fake the executive order. It doesn't need to be in the system to fake the communication to fire.
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Xynoxx
414. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 26 2009, 12:06 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 26 2009, 12:11 PM EDT
"The fact that people are still arguing over the rightness or wrongness of Jesse's actions makes me deliriously happy. The story was specifically designed to make Jesse (and the unseen future John Connor) both right and wrong. Both of them were operating with honorable motives. Jesse's tragedy is that she let her distrust of metal and horror at the situation overcome her trust in Connor and Queeg, and future Connor's tragedy is that he treated humans like robots and didn't realize that leaving them in the dark could lead to tragic consequences."
Thanks for replying! I did stress that Jesse's - I called it hate - of metal did cloud her judgement.

It would seem that those of us on both sides of the argument like Jesse, and JC, are equally right and wrong.

The writer's word is law!
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Xynoxx
415. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 26 2009, 12:21 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 26 2009, 12:29 PM EDT
Bedell, and Connor himself. I see that some have been questioning whether these two could actually rise to eminence in such a situation, when there are/would be so many better "qualified" veterans, etc. In fiction, as in history, these things can, and do happen. Those of a religious bent cannot have missed the fact that the supposed son of a humble carpenter had a rather massive impact upon the world.

And closer to us in time, let us not forget the Maid of Orleans. A humble farmer's daughter rose to lead an army, and was burnt at the stake by her enemies,, who were aided and abetted by the envious or fearful of losing their status within her ranks and country. Certain churchmen were embroiled within this betrayal. Looks like Connor may be facing/or has faced a similar problem.
So the existence of Bedell and Connor are believable within this story. Reality is sometimes a lot stranger than ficton. In the case of the original JC, and Jean d'Arc, the tales have no doubt been significantly embellished; yet, there are historical records. Those two had there betrayers too.

And Jesse - I'm here to save him. From her. IT!
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Enigma6482
Enigma6482
416. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 26 2009, 12:50 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 26 2009, 12:50 PM EDT
"I'm coming late to the argument but here's something to consider regarding military personnel post JD.

Assuming that ships at sea escape being nuked, whole fleets even, what do you think they might do?
Head for the nearest safe port? Assume “correctly” they are at war, with Russia? Go for payback?
And what about the troops in Afghanistan and other places which I would think also didn't get nuked.
There's no command and control, no supplies coming, what do they do?
"
I think subs would stand a very good chance of surviving (due to the fact that they are below the ocean). However, such ships as aircraft carries and what not could be easy targets for Skynet (either via nukes or other weapons).
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R.Daneel_Olivaw
R.Daneel_Olivaw
417. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 26 2009, 7:20 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 26 2009, 7:20 PM EDT
"Bedell, and Connor himself. I see that some have been questioning whether these two could actually rise to eminence in such a situation, when there are/would be so many better "qualified" veterans, etc. In fiction, as in history, these things can, and do happen. Those of a religious bent cannot have missed the fact that the supposed son of a humble carpenter had a rather massive impact upon the world.

And closer to us in time, let us not forget the Maid of Orleans. A humble farmer's daughter rose to lead an army, and was burnt at the stake by her enemies,, who were aided and abetted by the envious or fearful of losing their status within her ranks and country. Certain churchmen were embroiled within this betrayal. Looks like Connor may be facing/or has faced a similar problem.
So the existence of Bedell and Connor are believable within this story. Reality is sometimes a lot stranger than ficton. In the case of the original JC, and Jean d'Arc, the tales have no doubt been significantly embellished; yet, there are historical records. Those two had there betrayers too.

And Jesse - I'm here to save him. From her. IT!"
Damn good post.





Who are you and what have you done with Xynoxx? :)
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Xynoxx
418. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 26 2009, 7:53 PM EDT | Post edited: Oct 26 2009, 7:53 PM EDT
"Damn good post.





Who are you and what have you done with Xynoxx? :)"
He moves in mysterious ways. 'tis a foible of his.!
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