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ninelives888 |
80. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 1:53 PM EDT
Its tragically ironic that it WAS Derek that punishes Jesse. A metal hater on a level that I applaud , lol.
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Enigma6482 |
81. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 1:54 PM EDT
"Original Question: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?haha... Do you find this valuable? |
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kaotic |
82. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 1:57 PM EDT
"Original Question: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?lol! That's one way of looking at. Do you find this valuable? |
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Enigma6482 |
83. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 1:58 PM EDT
I think part of the problem here is that some people believe that there are no absolutes in life. If what "you" (and I mean that in the general you sense) believe is right for you then it is right; but if someone else believes/wants something else then that is right for them (basically saying that “everyone” is right as long as it is right for them). Unfortunately that is an incorrect assumption. Truth by its very definition is exclusive which also means that people are going to be "wrong" even if some of them believe they are "right".
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Schmacky |
84. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:17 PM EDT
"Yet again though, just b/c someone "thinks" their actions are right does not make them right. If I think that I'm justified in stealing something just b/c I think it is owed to me that "thought" alone does not make my action any less wrong. "Why are you quoting me when you say this? What did I say that has anything to do with that? I didn't ******* say that just because someone thinks something means they're right. No ******* duh. You don't really need to back it up with an example... it's a pretty ******* obvious thing. And plus, it's not even anything I said or implied. I'm saying.. some people think Jesse Flores was right in what she did with what she had. I would expect a senior officer to act the way she did. Queeg was suspicious and would not comply with orders.. I would expect any senior ranking officer of the Resistance to take care of their people and nuetralize the T-888. You don't agree. That's fine. But, that doesn't make me wrong. Nor does it make Jesse wrong. Right or wrong is subjective, it depends on how you see it. As far as the Resistance goes.... we only heard what Cameron had to say.... that's just simply not enough for me to determine what the lead Resistance thinks of the events on the Jimmy Carter. Do you find this valuable? |
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MetalHunter |
85. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:26 PM EDT
"Why are you quoting me when you say this? What did I say that has anything to do with that?Well, Queeg was suspicious and would not comply with orders, BUT he was the F.U.C.K.I.N.G CAPTAIN! Not a malfunctioning wash-machine. Remember! Queeg was in charge by the orders of John Connor. Jesse and the retards from submarine used to be traitors. Case closed. Do you find this valuable? |
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Schmacky |
86. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:30 PM EDT
"Well, Queeg was suspicious and would not comply with orders, BUT he was the F.U.C.K.I.N.G CAPTAIN! Not a malfunctioning wash-machine. Remember! Queeg was in charge by the orders of John Connor. Jesse and the retards from submarine used to be traitors.It's not case closed. You're excluding information. What information? That the SENIOR RANKING HUMAN OFFICER ON BOARD can ORDER the Captain and ANY Terminator to stand down and submit to chip extraction. Queeg said he is excluded from that. By whom? John Connor. That's what he said. But there was NO PROOF of that. No way to confirm that. Do you find this valuable? |
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Enigma6482 |
87. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:31 PM EDT
"Why are you quoting me when you say this? What did I say that has anything to do with that?You're condoning her actions and saying she is right. You're also very much implying that b/c she “thought” she was doing the right thing then she has to be right. In a situation such as this someone would HAVE to be wrong and someone would HAVE to be right. There really is no middle ground here on a war time situation such as this. (also relax it's a TV show) Do you find this valuable? |
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ninelives888 |
88. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:36 PM EDT
ITs also war and a fight for life. Terminators are machines that can be rebuilt , but still kill humans in situations that are ethically and morally WRONG time and time again. We have a case of Jesse desperately trying to do the right thing caught in impossible circumstances. Was Jesse to start executing the remainder of the human crew to complete Queeg's mission ? No , she asked for a sort of verification of Queeg's status, by asking him to submit to chip extraction, maybe their was a tech on board that could have looked at his programming. We won't know because he chose to ignore, and he paid the absolute price. What don't some understand about that ? I mean really they keep glossing over this main point.
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Schmacky |
89. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:40 PM EDT
"You're condoning her actions and saying she is right. You're also very much implying that b/c she “thought” she was doing the right thing then she has to be right. In a situation such as this someone would HAVE to be wrong and someone would HAVE to be right. There really is no middle ground here on a war time situation such as this.First of all.. don't tell me to relax. What? Because I cuss? Get over it. How long have I been here? How long have you been here? How many times have you seen me cuss? Yeah, it's something I do. So get the **** over it. But to the actual conversation.... as I've been saying for awhile, the person I feel is wrong is the one that gave Queeg the orders to dismiss anyone's chip extraction without telling Flores.. that is the person that is wrong. Vital information to have had. Also, yes I am condoning what she did. Like I said, I would expect any senior ranking officer in Jesse's position to do the same. I'm still not convinced that overall it was the wrong thing to do. According to Cameron, it was. But according to Connor, Perry, and any other human leaders of the Resistance? We don't know. That's why I'm not convinced yet (if ever). It's not about there being a middle ground in this situation. It's that we all don't have enough information. Do you find this valuable? |
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Enigma6482 |
90. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:49 PM EDT
"But to the actual conversation.... as I've been saying for awhile, the person I feel is wrong is the one that gave Queeg the orders to dismiss anyone's chip extraction without telling Flores.. that is the person that is wrong. Vital information to have had.Whoever gave Queeg that order (more than likely John or Cameron possibly Perry) outranked Jesse. Given the circumstances (and their outcome) she had no right to question her commanding officer (both Queeg and John/Cameron/Perry). Someone (again probably John or Cameron) obviously didn't trust Jesse enough (with good reason obviously) to allow her to pull Queegs chip b/c of how important the mission was. Like it or not she's in the military and is expected to follow orders. As was stated earlier without discipline, your military will fall apart (which is exactly what happened here). She should have followed orders as was expected of her and this whole mess never would have happened (however, story wise this did make things interesting). Also, there could have been a middle ground here. She never thought to ask Queeg to make contact with John, Cameron, or Perry before they reached Serrano (possibly when they were off the coast) in order to confirm that what Queeg was doing was indeed under orders. And also we get back to the fact that no one should have ever opened the box in the 1st place, nor did they have the right to mutiny. Do you find this valuable? |
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Schmacky |
91. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:54 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 22 2009, 2:58 PM EDT
"Whoever gave Queeg that order (more than likely John or Cameron possibly Perry) outranked Jesse. Given the circumstances (and their outcome) she had no right to question her commanding officer (both Queeg and John/Cameron/Perry). "I'm sorry, I couldn't read the rest of your post yet because of this. This stopped me. Are you serious!??!! Is that what you seriously think? That by taking Queeg's word for it she was disobeying orders? No. If I have command over someone and they said our commander said "oh no don't worry about it, he said it's cool" Do you think I should take his word for it? When I already suspect him of something? Or do you think I should verify that it is in fact OK with the said commander? And if I can't confirm these orders by the commander, should I just go "Oh well I can't confirm this, so yeah, whatever, it's all gravy." ??? Oh ****. That's sad if you think that. I read the rest of your post. As far as I can see, I think it's just as retarded as the first part of your post. Jesse WAS following orders. She had orders to go to Australia and that changed because Queeg ordered them to pick up the box. She followed them. Then two people died and the Captain was getting weird so she AGAIN followed orders by ordering him to chip extraction. HE did not comply and said he had orders that overrode that authorization. She asked to see the orders for confirmation. He failed to give them to her. SHE followed her orders. It's not her fault that she was not told of any change. Again, I would expect ANYONE to do what she did with the information she had. She handled it well. 1 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Schmacky |
92. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 2:59 PM EDT
And what the **** is with this "maybe they didn't trust her (for obvious reasons)" What obvious reasons!? Before she got on that boat there was NOTHING to indicate anything was wrong with Jesse Flores. NOTHING to indicate that she was a bad soldier/sailor/officer.TheTurk told us that the Submariners were considered Elite. You think they PROMOTE someone to Commander and put them on a nuclear submarine if they don't trust them? Oh come the **** on... Do you find this valuable? |
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Enigma6482 |
93. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:06 PM EDT
"I'm sorry, I couldn't read the rest of your post yet because of this. This stopped me.Queeg was the CAPTAIN and we are given no evidence that he had gone bad. Unlike the other trip 8 that went on a mad killing spree Queeg had exhibited no evidence of this at all. Queeg was the CO on that ship and Jesse was his first mate. Like it or not he outranked her. He was also apparently given authority over that crew (By John, Cameron or Perry). Now if you are saying you disagree with John placing Queeg in a command officer position that is a matter of opinion (which we can all vary on); but that still does not condone Jesse’s actions (if she didn’t like what John was doing then she should quit the resistance and try to fend for herself out in post apocalyptic LA). If Queeg had obviously gone bad and was overtly putting the crew at risk then that would be another thing; but they were returning to Serrano Point as ordered. Again, there could have been the need to contact Serrano before they reached port in order to relay the situation (about the loose T-1001 on board the ship); but that possibility wasn’t even discussed. Jesse went crazy and killed her CO. Do you find this valuable? |
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Schmacky |
94. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:09 PM EDT
"Queeg was the CAPTAIN and we are given no evidence that he had gone bad. Unlike the other trip 8 that went on a mad killing spree Queeg had exhibited no evidence of this at all. Queeg was the CO on that ship and Jesse was his first mate. Like it or not he outranked her. He was also apparently given authority over that crew (By John, Cameron or Perry). "Uhm... the point of chip extraction is not to wait for a Terminator to go bad.. but to pull the chip BEFORE it happens. Need I repeat, she had the authority (so her orders said) to order him to submit to chip extraction. But seriously, what's the point of ordering a Terminator to stand down after it's well into its rampage killing people? "Uhm, Terminator, I have orders for you to take out your chip. Do it now on my order!" *BANG* ".............." The point of the protocol is to STOP that from happening. Do you find this valuable? |
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Xynoxx |
95. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:11 PM EDT
| Post edited: Oct 22 2009, 3:25 PM EDT
Commander Flores was wrong. Totally. There is NO mitigation. Her orders were to deliver that box unopened INTACT. She failed. As commander of a supposedly hand-picked team, she did not prevent them from opening the box. She failed. She lost control of her personnel, one of whom threatened the lMT with a weapon, She got killed for her pains, This death was Commander Flores`fault. Her command of the situation failed. The LMT, seeing the rabble on the boat, said "NO". Commander Flores failed again. The team lost control of themselves and attacked Flores. By that time, she had effectively lost her command. She failed. She turned on Queeq, who had saved her butt. Queeg did not give her a reason to shoot him. He refused to divulge his orders. He was actually behaving more like someone in command than Flores. He was the only one on that boat who stuck to the orders he had been given. After the dog's breakfast she made of the mission, she then actually sank the boat. Exit one highly valuable nuke sub, pride of the Resistance.No military command worth the name would not have given Commandwer Flores anything more than a Court Martial, followed by a firing squad. This was wartime. A war where human extinction was almost certain. Jesse Flores, by her insane actions, brought that extinction closer. I am amazed that anyone finds ways to mtigate what Jesse has done, especially as she then fled back in time to continue her mutiny. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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Schmacky |
96. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:14 PM EDT
"Now if you are saying you disagree with John placing Queeg in a command officer position that is a matter of opinion (which we can all vary on); but that still does not condone Jesse’s actions (if she didn’t like what John was doing then she should quit the resistance and try to fend for herself out in post apocalyptic LA). If Queeg had obviously gone bad and was overtly putting the crew at risk then that would be another thing; but they were returning to Serrano Point as ordered. Again, there could have been the need to contact Serrano before they reached port in order to relay the situation (about the loose T-1001 on board the ship); but that possibility wasn’t even discussed. Jesse went crazy and killed her CO.What is this ******** you speak of? If Jesse didn't like what John was doing ... first of all, we don't know what John was doing because we never see John. Jesse didn't even see John. It's all Cameron. We cannot confirm nor deny that John had anything to do with this particular mission. Maybe he didn't know, maybe he's dead, or maybe he is involved. Point is... we don't know. Second of all, what is it you think Jesse didn't like what John was doing? You do ******* understand that THIS mission and the aftermath of it IS the reason Jesse DID quit the Resistance? You get that right? This **** happened, she realized that Metal was everywhere and commanding the humans and she didn't like it.... so she left. Before that, it was all gravy for her. Do you find this valuable? |
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Schmacky |
97. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:14 PM EDT
"Commander Flores was wrong. Totally. There is NO mitigation. Her orders were to deliver that box unopened INTACT. "Actually, HER orders were to go to Australia to pick up supplies. Do you find this valuable? |
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Schmacky |
98. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:16 PM EDT
"I am amazed that anyone find ways to mtigatewhat Jesse has done, especially as she then fled back in time to continu her mutiny. finds "I don't condone or agree with the whole time travel back and set up an innocent girl to die part. But Commander Flores and her actions on board the Jimmy Carter... I agree with. With the knowledge and orders she was given she made the correct choice. It was the fault of whoever gave opposing orders to both Commander Flores and Captain Queeg. Do you find this valuable? |
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Enigma6482 |
99. RE: What was Jesse's rank in the resistance?
Oct 22 2009, 3:18 PM EDT
"Uhm... the point of chip extraction is not to wait for a Terminator to go bad.. but to pull the chip BEFORE it happens.I honestly think the "point" of chip extraction was to make the other soldiers feel better. John would have been well aware of the fact that if a Terminator went bad there would be no way to stop it other than to destroy it (ie Cameron destroying the trip 8). I think John (or his representative) told everyone about the chip extraction order more to help sooth people when it came to working along side machines. This would also explain why John ordered Queeg not to submit to chip extraction in the 1st place. We're not even sure that Jesse had ever been given that authority to pull Queegs chip (if chip extraction was indeed a valid program that was put into all the scrubbed units). There is the possibility she just new about it and assumed that anyone could give a Terminator that order and expect it to be followed. Do you find this valuable? |